Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive217
SashiRolls
[edit]| User:SashiRolls is indefinitely blocked. The first year of the block is an arbitration enforcement action. After the first year, he may appeal to any uninvolved administrator. GoldenRing (talk) 13:49, 23 June 2017 (UTC) |
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Request concerning SashiRolls[edit]
Summary: Pattern of engaging in personal attacks, WP:Casting aspersions, ad hominem, and (self-admitted) WP:WIKIHOUNDING. [8] [9]
Prior behavior with multiple editors
Discussion concerning SashiRolls[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SashiRolls[edit]I agree that after having been accused of WP:WIKIHOUNDING without evidence, and having noticed that Sage accuses a lot of people of this, I have indeed decided to follow his contributions to the encyclopedia. I would remind Salvidrim! that linking off-wiki is frowned upon based on WP:LINKLOVE. This behavioral guideline contains the root "harass" 26 times and the word "critic" once (as legitimate "critique" contained in a table heading). In no way do I think my behavior at Bibliography of Donald Trump or at Talk:Bibliography of Donald Trump (my first ever intervention on a Trump page unless I'm mistaken) was inappropriate. Wikipedia users who are readers far outnumber Wikipedia contributors. The reader should always be kept in mind. It is therefore important to make readers aware of who the authors of many of the book review entries mentioned on the page are:
I would suggest that administrators kindly but forcefully suggest Sagecandor employ their skills on topics other than US-Russian relations and Donald Trump, as they have already done their work here. As for an I-Ban, if it is two-way, no problem. I'm not looking for conflict with Sagecandor. I want the community to be aware of what they are doing. SashiRolls (talk) 15:10, 22 June 2017 (UTC) There is nothing creepy about sifting through the diffs that are publicly available by design in order to make our readers aware of "on whose authority" our articles have been compiled. There is absolutely nothing personal in the list above. I have not called it creepy that each book review entry took about 10 minutes to prepare and occupied a tiny part of a very long day editing elsewhere. I have not sought to identify anyone working through the Sagecandor account as a RW person. They are obviously very motivated having created all sorts of categories critical of DT (Music, Books, Films, Works, Parodies) as I mentioned on the talk page. An I-Ban has the effect of preventing a reasonably good copy-editor from paring the text down to size a bit, but that's OK. I'm not very interested in Donald Trump. What is creepy: TimothyJosephWood's satirical outing of me in December. (A schoolyard play on my real name + that of my mother) sort of a "we know who you are" type edit". I will be happy to provide evidence to Arbcom should that be necessary, but I think we need to move on. I did not start this AE drama; Prosecutor Sagecandor did. (once again: they have appeared in 17 AE cases now in their 80 days in the project, 7 as special prosecutor.) Though they have been taken to ANI several times, I've never sought to prosecute them. (Though on the page in question Talk:Bibliography of Donald Trump, they are guilty of restoring contested content without consensus, though I gather that rule has been recently overruled.) SashiRolls (talk) 16:39, 22 June 2017 (UTC) What is also creepy: Statements with no evidence from (very) involved editors... such as several below, including Neutrality full diff corresponding to what he added from last year, VM, TJW, Objective 3000 (ps: the case is about my right to assemble publicly available diffs to show our readers who has authored encyclopedic entries and categories of entries, nothing more. If it gets to be a big thing I'll add more evidence of astroturfing). With regard to being here to build an encyclopedia my most recent contribution was a translation to French of an English article I added to English Wikipedia. It involves a trade union in Haiti. There is enough time since the events involved that it is WP:NOTNEWS. The overwhelming emphasis of a lot of editors on news, especially partisan issues, is unfortunate. SashiRolls (talk) 18:21, 22 June 2017 (UTC) Power~enwiki I encourage you to check out the previous cases so you'll be able to determine whether they too were mostly puffery or not. In any case, time has been served for those alleged sins (I was not permitted to appeal the 6-month block, in fact)... I was denied all talk-page access for 6 months, which suggests to me hat Wikipedia prefers that all healthy criticism occur off-wiki. Of course if we prefer having power-users who call themselves contributors but others (like you) as depersonalized "users", well that's the way the psy-ops work these days...
An example of how links to SC's book reviews have been included willy-nilly on pages that are completely unrelated: here is an example of such astro-turfing on Tulsi Gabbard. I gather it was one of a dozen such edits. I mention this because the contributor involved was active in both of the delete discussions above. SashiRolls (talk) 21:20, 22 June 2017 (UTC) Statement by BullRangifer[edit]This is an especially egregious demonstration of NOTHERE. Support sanctions. SashiRolls has no right to suggest another editor change editing areas. Subject experts are welcome here, and if an editor adds good content, without creating disruption, then they are welcome to do so. -- BullRangifer (talk) 15:14, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Timothyjosephwood[edit]Well... I'm not going to have any hurt feelings over an indef. The above is just creepy AF, and this is starting to get into actual real life stalking. If there's a compelling reason to keep Sashi around I'm not seeing it... not now... all of 48 hours after their block expired. The time other editors have spent on this exact shit right here outweighs their positive contributions tenfold. TimothyJosephWood 15:22, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Dennis Brown[edit]I did the last block and not technically involved but think it best that other eyes review. For the record, the last block was for 6 months, had a strong consensus at WP:AE, and was done as a NON-Arb Enforcement block. It can be found here. There was some confusion on his talk page about whether it was an AE block or not, but it absolutely was a traditional block, just done at AE because it seemed unnecessary to move the case to a new venue once it has already started. As for the merits herein, I have no comment. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 15:45, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Capitals00[edit]@GoldenRing: Topic ban can be indefinie and also an indefinite AE block can be made too, but this kind of block can be overturned by any admin after 1 year and 1 second, but not before 1 year. Capitals00 (talk) 16:30, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Neutrality[edit]I'll keep this short. I am involved as to SashiRolls. Suffice it to say this user has demonstrated that he or she is not here to build an encyclopedia, has had multiple opportunities to change behavior, and has refused to do so. My comment here is illustrative of what we are looking at here. I support an indefinite ban. Neutralitytalk 17:23, 22 June 2017 (UTC) Statement by Power~enwiki[edit]I agree that SashiRolls made several edits out of line immediately after a 6-month ban, and should probably be blocked completely. I disagree strongly with an interaction-ban. I have had disputes with Sagecandor in the past (Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive956#Sagecandor). I find these "Hounding" accusations misguided. Sagecandor has edited or created almost all the Donald Trump-related book pages. An interaction ban is inappropriate due to it being equivalent to a topic-ban, possibly with political implications. Sagecandor's case for an IBAN is full of puffery. He is exceedingly quick to file unnecessary [23] escalations in response to any comments [24] . Sagecandor also recently made a series of trivial edits [25] in quick succession [26], behavior I often take suspiciously. Some of this is Sagecandor's tendency to make bold statements and later word them more cautiously. [27]. This request was appropriate, but the forum may not have been. I am worried that Sagecandor may continue his trend of escalating disagreements more often than is necessary. Power~enwiki (talk) 18:51, 22 June 2017 (UTC) (amended Power~enwiki (talk) 20:15, 22 June 2017 (UTC)) Statement by Volunteer Marek[edit]Stalking and harassing editors - which is what we definitely have here - isn't just IBAN worthy, it's sufficient for an indef ban, especially since SashiRolls appears to have no intention of stopping. IBAN will just result in more drama as people start to try to Wiki-lawyer it or tiptoe on the edges of it just enough to be irritating but observing "the letter" of it. You can look forward to numerous future WP:AE request if you do just an IBAN. Furthermore, as evidenced by other users' comments, SashiRolls' problematic behavior isn't limited to just their interactions with Sagecandor - it's basically one big WP:NOTHERE which also makes an indef ban more appropriate. Enough.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:01, 22 June 2017 (UTC) Statement by Objective3000[edit]There seems to be a pattern in SashiRoll’s reactions to sanctions, requested and applied. It’s always about other editors. This request is supposed to be about SashiRolls. But, the response was a long list of articles by the filer. Changing Statement by to Defendant’s and using the word prosecutor illustrates SashiRoll’s attitude toward any corrective action. Six months doesn’t seem to have been enough time for an attitude change, even after a ban from their own Talk Page. Objective3000 (talk) 19:56, 22 June 2017 (UTC) Statement by Tryptofish[edit]It boggles my mind that we are back here so quickly after the previous block expired. I agree with all the other editors who say that this is in NOTHERE territory, something that I have been seeing since a long time ago with this user. I think that an IBAN will just mean that we will be back here again, very soon. It's not enough. There is no reason that I know of why AE cannot consider an indefinite block, and an enacting administrator could issue it. Please do not kick the can down the road. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:31, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Result concerning SashiRolls[edit]
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Razgriz301
[edit]| Article placed under ECP as an WP:AE action by GoldenRing. Razgriz301 is admonished for edit warring and warned that future edit warring or any other type of disruptive behavior will result in sanctions. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 16:59, 29 June 2017 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Razgriz301[edit]
Please put the article under ECP protection. There has been a large amount of sockpuppetry for the past seven months.
Discussion concerning Razgriz301[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Razgriz301[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Razgriz301[edit]
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Quadrow
[edit]| Quadrow is admonished for disruptive editing and advised to learn the ropes of Wikipedia - perhaps somewhere less contentious. Next time a topic-ban is likely. GoldenRing (talk) 17:41, 30 June 2017 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Quadrow[edit]
Please put the article under ECP. There has been a large amount of sockpuppetry for the past seven months.
Sandstein, what do you mean by
Discussion concerning Quadrow[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Quadrow[edit]There seems to be some issue where consensus is getting misused to mean what people on the left side of the argument thinks without considering the fact there is no consensus because others (many others) don't agree. You can follow a massive dispute about whether Breitbart is 'far-right' or not. There is no consensus on that. There is a consensus that Breitbart is described as far-right and there is also consensus that Breitbart object to this description. There is nothing controversial about that fact and I got involved in the talk page before making edits and I edited along the lines of what the consensus is. This was reverted without a discussion and it was reverted against consensus. This enforcement request is entirely politically motivated and is being misused.--Quadrow (talk) 14:14, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
I hope I have demonstrated good faith and that action doesn't get taken beyond a warning, but my opinion is that the whole page has succumbed to left-wing political bias by the unqualified use of the phrase 'far-right' in the lede and experienced editors are aggressively seeking to keep out balance from the article.--Quadrow (talk) 23:34, 29 June 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Quadrow[edit]
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Snooganssnoogans
[edit]| Satisfactory explanation given. Be careful. There may be a case for WP:ARCA as to whether consensus restrictions should apply to Post 32 politics anymore, but that is beyond the scope of WP:AE. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:14, 3 July 2017 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Snooganssnoogans[edit]
On May 11, an IP editor made an edit which, among other things, changed "illegal immigrants" to "undocumented immigrants"[35] The change was not only limited to visible text but it also modified several references, breaking URLs or falsifying Apparently, the edit went unnoticed until today when I reverted it, clearly specifying in my edit summary what I was reverting.[36] Snooganssnoogans violated at least the consensus required active arbitration remedy by counter-reverting me without obtaining consensus on the talk page, but they have also enabled vandalism. Were they deliberately vandalizing a page? No, but judging by their edit summary
@Sandstein: if I have made a mistake in the request, could you help me fixing it? The talk page says
Discussion concerning Snooganssnoogans[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Snooganssnoogans[edit]I apologize for re-introducing errors to titles and urls. The reason why I reverted you was that it appeared that you had simply changed "undocumented immigrants" to "illegal immigrants" in visible text, and called usage of the term "undocumented immigrants" vandalism. This was an error by me, as you not only changed "undocumented immigrants" to "illegal immigrants" in visible text but also fixed errors that had been introduced to titles and urls. I disagree that you "clearly specified" what you were reverting, you just said "Reverting one ancient vandalism" without explaining what was vandalism about it. When I glanced through the edit differences, it appeared as if you just changed one legitimate term in visible text to a different term. I would never have reverted your edit, had you simply said "reverting edit that introduced errors to urls and titles" or exclusively fixed the errors to titles and urls. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from, given that users fairly regularly change the term "undocumented immigrants" to "illegal immigrants" in Wikipedia articles because they like one term over the other. I thought you were doing that, and were simply referring to usage of the term "undocumented immigrants" as vandalism. It should be obvious though that there was no malicious intent behind the revert, as what would be the point of ruining urls and titles? Note also that I was the one who added some of these links last summer/fall to the old "Political positions of Donald Trump" article (which this article is an off-shoot from), and of course used the correct titles and urls. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 14:22, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Sagecandor[edit]Agree with GoldenRing that the explanation by Snooganssnoogans is fine here. Appears to be a case of WP:Assume bad faith on part of filing party DIFF LINK. Rationale for this statement: Similar edit as made by Snooganssnoogans was made by Nomoskedasticity DIFF LINK. Comment about issue on talk page by Icewhiz DIFF LINK. Sagecandor (talk) 17:13, 3 July 2017 (UTC) Agree with Sandstein that filing party failed to note an actionable Arbitration Committee remedy DIFF LINK. Sagecandor (talk) 17:22, 3 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Objective3000[edit]Simple mistake. Move along, nothing to see here. Objective3000 (talk) 17:17, 3 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Snooganssnoogans[edit]
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NadirAli
[edit]| User:NadirAli is warned not to edit war. If this had been brought in a more timely fashion, sanctions would almost certainly have been the result. As it is, let's not see you back here. GoldenRing (talk) 20:39, 7 July 2017 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning NadirAli[edit]
Since the removal of the topic ban, he has been a habitual edit warrior and engaged in disruptive editing. And now he is page move warring on Iron Age in India[42][43], he even reverted the page move of an admin, despite on going discussion.[44]
Blocked for violating 1RR rule on 9 June on Rape during the Kashmir conflict.[58] Capitals00 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
Discussion concerning NadirAli[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by NadirAli[edit]The IP involved consulted a selective group of editors, which is very suspicious behavior and a form of canvassing. [67] [68] When he couldn't win consensus, he pinged the selective group of users, despite being told by to stop. He was also reverted by another user on the same page [69], until he was reverted by me but continued to edit war and then this report against me was filed. His edit summaries are also suspicious and his comment and attempts to ping there tells a lot [70]. Seeing all that, and his experience in editing, I can almost guarantee he's a banned user.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:39, 30 June 2017 (UTC) With regards to my topic ban on image uploading, I have also made an effort to remove copyrighted material placed by various users. These actions in addition to many useful uploads and linking from commons (eg. Mythology, Droid (robot) amongst many others) balance out the allegations that I'm a persistent violator of WP:COPYRIGHT, at least in my view [71][72][73]--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:39, 30 June 2017 (UTC) In response to the ancient abrcom case, I don't think it matters much as it was a long time ago. But should it be discussed, the case was filed within minutes of me and a departed user who opened an ANI report against the administrator. [74]. This administrator had a history of selectively blocking users on India-Pakistan disputes, and abusive edit warring, including using his rollback tools to evade the 3RR. This was confirmed by Fowler&fowler on that arbcom and documented at Wikipedia: Requests for arbitration/Hkelkar-2 by the very users he previously supported. In that case, the same arbcom de-sysopped the administrator but awkwardly backed him on the India-Pakistan arbcom case, despite that very same reason being the main cause of the case.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:39, 30 June 2017 (UTC) It's been three years since I returned to Wikipedia and my main intention of returning was fixing up pages that seemed inactive/outdated and creating new articles (i have created around 40 pages and still have more to create.) My recommendation is that the IP range be kept under observation and all it's edits on India-Pakistan pages (including the pages he incited edit wars and canvassed on) be semi-protected as well as the users he openly confessed to being affiliated with be strictly warned.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:39, 30 June 2017 (UTC) Also I was honestly unaware that the article was under arbcom sanctions, until I saw the talk page. Ever since my block, I have abandoned that article all together.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:46, 30 June 2017 (UTC) It also seems I'm going to need to take longer time off Wikipedia as I have more serious commitments in life and cannot afford to be in these messes.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:39, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
Note to administrators: I have never come into contact with this user before. Based on his above proposals, he seems unfamiliar with my editing history. I seldomly edit pages tagged under the two Wikipeojects he mentioned above. They are not in my areas of interest. Unless of course, they overlap with Pakistan. That is mostly to balance out WP:NPOV and accuracy. Besides that, I do not edit pages under those WikiProjects. They are not typically in my areas of interest. My own editing history proves it's been ages since I edited anything on a major Indian state, city or biography of notable Indians, unless again there are overlaps with Pakistan. The last major Indian article I edited to my memory, tagged exclusively under WP:INDIA was at Border Security Force. That edit was more out of my interest in law enforcement than my interest with India. If I remember correctly, it was spacing out the article, an edit I doubt anyone, even those opposing me would contest or disagree with.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 23:29, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
User:EEMIV is a user who has a history of disruptive editing on science fiction pages. [75] His conduct has been an annoyance to numerous users un-related to me (including numerous edit wars) and long before he encountered me or any of my involvement in his previous disputes. The two examples are just of many [76][77]. This user and I had several disputes on a few science fiction pages. One primary example was on the article about The Force, where he removed two bodies of quotes that I worked hard to add onto the article. He did this more than once, at least twice. Judging that it was not something worth arguing or fighting over (despite them being good quality and relevant to the subject), I let him have his way. Another example was how he reverted me on this article, despite that my edit seems more accurate based on the image and article I linked it to. [78]. Again, I judged that it was not something worth arguing over, so I let it go. But every time that I do revert him or resist his reversions, he automatically accuses me of "ownership". He even sent me a message with the titles containing the words "antagonism and ownership" and cited my 2007 ban. I responded to his accusations word by word in a calm and civilized manner. Another dispute that him and I had on The Force article was a section I created called "Scientific and parascientific perspectives on the Force", using the fifth chapter of the book The Science of Star Wars as my source. Within days, the section was re-worded and revised to the point that not only was information incomplete and lacking, but it was also inconsistent with the source it was citing. After several attempts to fix it, I was only reverted. We argued over this on the talk page as well as his talk page (scroll further below) [79], but he refused to compromise and enjoyed the backing of at least two other users. This is also despite none of them having access to the source, while at the time I had hard copy of The Science of Star Wars. Seeing that the section was completely degraded (especially it's inconsistency with the source it was citing) and his stubbornness to let me fix it and with a 3 to 1 ratio of consensus, I boldly decided the article is better off without that section all together. If it's in that terrible state, it might as well go. I even clarified this in my edit summary [80]. User:EEMIV immediately reverted it within a short time and left this edit summary [81]. But right here on Technology in Star Wars, he takes a complete 180 degree turn, arguing that a statement in the lasers section was inconsistent with the source it was citing and needs to be removed [82]. Note that I did not resist changes to that. I made a few edits to the section and if I remember correctly, I placed a {better source needed} template. But his self-contradictive approach gives me the impression that he is more concerned with his personal liking of content rather than following WP:RS. After onwards, I started getting the impression that he was is lurking about my talk page as well as shadowing my edits. He also appears keen to find common grounds against me. One example was when I had gotten into a short disagreement with another user over the redirect of a mostly empty article I created without consensus and also by the fact that it has plenty of coverage to be added. The user sent me a message on it. At the time, the top of my page contained EEMIV's old message on alleged antagonism and ownership. The opposing user added a second edit in the same message and used those same two words for an edit summary I had put while reverting the redirect. EEMIV almost instantly appeared on that users talk page with this comment, even though he was never involved in that small dispute [83]. I gave him this warning [84]. Even afterwards, I was still under the suspicion that he watches over my talk page. I had noticed that when he would appear on voting/discussion pages that I would receive notifications for, but saw no sign of them his talk page. I can't provide all the diffs for that, but here's one example. I received a notification on December sixth about a discussion and vote over a redirect. I suspected EEMIV would vote there. Despite not having received the same notification on his talk page, he was right there, even before I was [85]. Also on that very same day, I made an edit on Category: Star Wars and within hours he appeared there to revert me, despite never having edited that page ever before. I even mentioned this in my edit summary. [86]. Ever since then, he has left me alone. But his sudden appearance at this case, despite not having interacted with me over a period of months, confirms my suspicions that he still shadows my talk page, waiting for the right time to settle a score with me. Even though I have given up (at least for now) on trying to fix that section on The Force article for months and even despite his self-conviction of my supposed "ownership" practice. To me it looks more like a case of WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:GRUDGE on his part by posting here, despite never having been involved in any India-Pakistan disputes ever before. His talk page history shows no sign of any such involvement, but plenty of angry responses from users he has aggravated and edit warred on more occasions than I have, but cunningly dodged getting blocked. I could provide plenty of diffs for this, but for now I think i've made my point. I don't see why a future discussion on user conduct should exclude him, nor comments by interested users that he has managed to anger and disrupt.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 01:04, 3 July 2017 (UTC) User:Lankiveil, I have posted a couple of responses. Please take them into account for any evaluation. Thank you.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 02:14, 3 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Marvellous Spider-Man[edit]NadirAli has been blocked for various reasons in past decade. Editors don't have time to assume good faith with his disruptive edits. I request this editor be indefinitely topic banned from all articles of WP:INDIA and WP:HINDU. Statement by EEMIV[edit]My experience with NadirAli is outside the scope of the arbitration issue at hand. However, the often tendentious and occasionally disruptive editing reported above is consistent with how NadirAli has engaged at times with the Star Wars wikiproject. He has expressed an interest in, and a few times has been responsive to, feedback. However, there's a long streak of WP:IDHT when it comes to content disagreements and interpreting sourcing polices. I'd considered an RfC a few months ago when things were particularly challenging, and I wonder whether a discussion about the editor's behavior in a broader venue, and not limited to this particular corner of the project, would be appropriate. --EEMIV (talk) 14:08, 30 June 2017 (UTC) Statement by Sagecandor[edit]Agree with both GoldenRing and Lankiveil that the evidence presented is a bit stale. Maybe a warning, maybe. But to act at this particular page with this particular process for diff links a month old, seems too much for here. Sagecandor (talk) 00:30, 3 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Uanfala[edit]I've had a few interactions with NadirAli before, and although he's a well-meaning editor sometimes makes good edits, from what I've seen so far (and I want to stress that this is a small sample of his edits), there's a bit too much of CIR issues for him to be a net positive. For example, when it was briefly pointed out to him that he shouldn't introduce American spelling into Indian articles [87], then instead of getting the point (or following up the link to MOS:ENGVAR), he insisted he was doing the right thing even after the gist of ENGVAR had to be digested for him several times by other editors [88] [89] [90]. In another instance, he removed an authoritatively sourced text from an article [91] because he didn't like a certain word used. He did bring it up on the talk page [92], but when I replied to him explaining he was misunderstanding the meaning of the text [93], he didn't reply and when the text was eventually restored to the article he reverted it [94] missing the fact that his own thread on the talk page had received replies and insisting he should have been pinged [95]. Altogether these aren't major "transgressions", but the topic area is one in which we already have to deal with a high number of incompetent or disruptive newbie editors, and an experienced user adding to this maintenance burden is not helpful. NadirAli can be a good editor if he tries to set aside his national bias, learns to take greater care when editing, makes sure he reads and understands what other editors have written to him on his talk page, and starts being willing to admit that he might occasionally be wrong. – Uanfala 07:57, 3 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning NadirAli[edit]
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The Rambling Man
[edit]| Utter nonsense and a waste of time. After reading through the diffs, I'm put in the position of either believing AHeneen doesn't understand what ad hominem is, or has some (unknown to me) grudge against TRM. From what I read, there is absolutely nothing worthy of a complaint at WP:AE, WP:ANI or any other venue. Editors will criticize articles, ideas or Wikipedia itself, and this is not against policy if done in a reasonable and proportional way. If fact, it is part of the consensus building process. Sometimes they are critical of admin, but admin are expected to deal with mild observations without requiring sanctions be levied. As I don't see anything actionable, I am closing without action except to notify AHeneen that they need to brush up on behavioral expectations at Wikipedia, so as to not waste others time in the future with frivolous reports. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 22:38, 8 July 2017 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning The Rambling Man[edit]
If The Rambling Man finds himself tempted to engage in prohibited conduct, he is to disengage and either let the matter drop or refer it to another editor to resolve."
Discussion concerning The Rambling Man[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by The Rambling Man[edit]Statement by Vanamonde[edit]
Statement by Black Kite[edit]Yeah, per Vanamonde. I realise that you're trying to include context, but it would be a lot easier if you snipped it right down to the diffs that you claim directly show "The Rambling Man insulting and/or belittling other editors." At a cursory reading, I can only see the argument with Arthur Rubin that even remotely approaches that, but I may be missing other needles in this haystack. Black Kite (talk) 10:45, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Johnuniq[edit]I suppose that a 32,684-byte wall of text must contain something showing less than ideal behavior from TRM, but I just searched Template:Did you know nominations/Star Athletica, L. L. C. v. Varsity Brands, Inc. for TRM's comments and read them. They are fine, particularly when read in context. The only problem seen at that page is that AHeneen likes a very special way of formatting references and is pugnaciously declining all advice. I also checked a couple of the diffs mentioned regarding WT:Citing sources. A collaborative editor would take "I note you haven't answered a single one of my questions yet" as a suggestion that answering the questions would be desirable, while another kind of editor would post 32,684 bytes at WP:AE. Johnuniq (talk) 10:38, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Softlavender[edit]You have got to be kidding. Someone please administer a boomerang for wasting the time of AE admins and everyone reading this interminable non-actionable nonsense. Softlavender (talk) 15:47, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by StillWaitingForConnection[edit]There are only two situations where a wall of text might be appropriate. One is where you are defending yourself and the initial case looks bad, therefore it is necessary to expand on and contextualise diffs which might lead someone to the wrong conclusion. The other is where others specifically invite you (whether you are filing or responding) to elaborate on specific points – i.e. you've given them enough in your initial statement to believe it warrants further investigation, but not enough for them to actually investigate. This filing very clearly violates both of those principles and seems designed to be an attritional and scattergun complaint. It should thus be dismissed out of hand. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 16:38, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Beyond My Ken[edit]I can hardly be considered to be a Wiki-friend of TRM -- we have clashed a number of times -- but I see absolutely nothing in the edits presented which indicate that he has violated his restriction. The comments are sharp, yes, but they are all about the editor's editing, and not directed toward the person behind the editing. I would suggest that admins might consider admonishing the OP for bringing a baseless (and overly long) complaint to AE. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:26, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Davey2010[edit]Not one comment there is belittling or insulting in any way, shape or form, Heated somewhat? .. Yeah sure but no insulting or belittling, This is a classic case of the OP having a grudge and are doing everything they can to boot TRM off the project, Bullshit request is bullshit. –Davey2010Talk 19:36, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Ritchie333[edit]I despair. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:01, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Statment by 331dot[edit]I'll agree that while heated and contentious, none of the comments appear to me to be belittling or insulting at least as I understand those words to mean. I am amazed at the number of people who monitor TRM's comments and are ready to jump on whatever might seem the least bit 'belittling' to them. Don't people have better things to do here? 331dot (talk) 20:02, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Statment by Cassianto[edit]What benefit is this serving exactly? What a complete waste of time. The OP needs to be kicked into touch and told to go away and grow up. CassiantoTalk 20:22, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Berean Hunter[edit]Is it too late for the filer to request closing? From what I'm seeing, this should not have been opened and I don't see any good coming of this. Statement by Arthur Rubin[edit]Although I think him a detriment to the project, and he is clearly bullying, I haven't found a clear violation of this restriction. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:23, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Pawnkingthree[edit]TRM is prohibited from insulting and belittling other editors, he is not prohibited from criticizing other users' edits. A disagreement with TRM over content appearing on the Main Page is not a valid reason to come here. The filer needs to grow a thicker skin. Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:47, 8 July 2017 (UTC) Result concerning The Rambling Man[edit]
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Winsocker
[edit]| Winsocker is topic-banned from everything related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, and their extended-confirmed user right is removed. Sandstein 09:29, 11 July 2017 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Winsocker[edit]
The user was warned multiple times not to edit I/P area by various users [105] first he disregarded warnings but then he decided to game the system and make many minor edits to meet the threshold except the technical violation his edits by themselves disruptive changing anti-Semitic to anti-Jew deleting sourced material he didn't like and so on.--Shrike (talk) 05:52, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Winsocker[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Winsocker[edit]I've been under fire for mostly changing "Palestinian territories" to "Palestine" which is absurd. It seem's that when I edited the college's in Palestine to include the "State of Palestine", it apparently falls under the Arab-Israeli Conflict (I was given no warning when editing those Palestinian university pages). I feel this is a huge restriction on something that has nothing to do on the Arab-Israeli conflict. I really only understood the "Arab-Israeli" conflict message to be wary of editing only things that have to do with the conflict and that is how it should be enforced. Location's that just happen in Palestine should not get this restriction as it puts a blockade on improving those page's to begin with. (Especially if they are 'stub' pages) The next proof he uses is me changing "anti-Semitic" to "anti-Jew. Firstly, the definition of "Semitic" is "a subfamily of Afroasiatic languages that includes Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopic, Hebrew, and Phoenician." [see here]. As you can see, the word "Semitic" covers mostly groups from the middle east, while the word "anti-Semitic" usually means "Anti-Jew" in North America, we must keep in mind for our users in Europe & Asia, and more importantly, the Middle East where the definition is taught differently. This is a more accurate version. The third statement was a edit against the UN Watch, I did realize there was no "criticism" despite the group coming under fire from it. The organization does lean more of a pro-Israel lobbyist group but I do realize this should have edit better. Lastly, the user say's I was trying to "game" the system. It is not very hard to go through random article's and try to slightly improve it better. What is worse is that GiantSnowman had to go and RV all of them without at least warning me first. "Gaming" the system mean's to gain something in a way it was not intended but nothing I did was out of scope of what Wikipedia allows you to do. Many, many times, I have asked users to talk about issues in a talk page to handle problems and 0 people have done that, especially since the entire reason of a talk page is to go over issues instead of countless RV's. I have even explain my RV's. It seem's that the user's i am talking to are taking action before discussion which is unhealthy since we get to no terms of reason. Winsocker (talk) 12:17, 10 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Malik Shabazz[edit]On top of gaming the system and other violations, I am troubled by this editor's seeming inability to understand what the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is. She or he makes edits almost exclusively to articles about Palestine and Israel, yet asks "What did I edit that was part of the Arab Israeli conflict?". See User talk:Sir Joseph#You said I recently edited an Arab-Israeli conflict... as well. I think it's very disturbing that a partisan editor isn't aware that she or he is editing in a conflict area. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 12:27, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
Statement by RolandR[edit]Quite apart from any other violation, I think this editor needs to be blocked until they learn when to use - and not to use - apostrophes. RolandR (talk) 15:31, 10 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Objective3000[edit]Just an aside to Winsocker. You cannot always determine the meaning of a word from its parts. The OED defines anti-Semitism as: “Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews.” Objective3000 (talk) 18:15, 10 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Winsocker[edit]
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Volunteer Marek
[edit]| Not actionable. Sandstein 07:29, 13 July 2017 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Volunteer Marek[edit]
VM was made aware of the consensus requirement at least twice, and provided no evidence to support an "established consensus" for inclusion. The editor ignored two opportunities to revert the offending edit. This is a straightforward violation. Past requests against VM have been muddled with unrelated and obfuscatory claims. I would be grateful if admins encouraged succinct and on-topic comments. James J. Lambden (talk) 05:48, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
@Sagecandor: The violation is a single edit. It is linked prominently at the top of the request. None other of VM's edits violated the sanctions. I provide a timeline of events and link twice to the same edit for convenience. It is not an attempt to mislead. The June 21 version claims in the third paragraph of the lede "it's connected to the alt-right" not, in the intro sentence that it is an alt-right forum, as VM's edit did. James J. Lambden (talk) 06:11, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Volunteer Marek[edit]There was an addition of this material on July 4th, although as Sagecandor notes it was in the article before, and it was removed without discussion and consensus. Regardless, it was not removed until July 9th. Three editors - User:Grayfell, User:ValarianB and myself expressed support for the inclusion which shows that consensus was indeed in favor of it. The removal was done by red-linked, brand new, throw away account and in fact, the article was protected against vandalism [106]. Please note the stated reason for protection. It is NOT "edit warring". It is "persistent vandalism". The text was restored by Grayfell and ValarianB. Several other established users, such as User:MrX, made intervening edits and did not object to the text. And this being a controversial article, a piece of text remaining in for five days pretty much makes it "status quo". The only person objecting at the time was Dervougilla who claimed, somewhat strangely, that this was not in line with WP:MOS. Additionally another user, Power~enwiki also expressed support for inclusion. Then James J. Lambden jumped in. And Lambden, in addition to a long history of him following me around and reverting blindly (WP:HARASS), basically just stirs up troubles and turns molehills into mountains. He turned what was originally vandalism-reversion with some civil discussion on the side into an edit war which he is now trying to leverage into an AE report. So. My edit did in fact restore consensus (four users vs. one, and that one seems to be making strange objections about MOS). Additionally, ask yourself this - why did Lambden report me, rather than Greyfell, who restored the edit several times, or ValerianB, who also restored it? Why didn't he complain to the admin who protected the page against vandalism, that "vandalism" being the removal of the text? If an admin, User:Anarchyte, protects the page because of "persistent vandalism", that vandalism being the removal of this text (and some other), how can you drag somebody to Arbitration Enforcement over the same thing? It doesn't make sense, except that it's a spurious WP:BATTLEGROUND report - and notably Lambden has complained before about the fact that AE reports concerning my person haven't gone the way he'd like, even went as far as to make a little infamous blacklist (don't remember if he still has it in his userspace - it's late right now), and this is just an obnoxious and insulting attempt to "remedy" that situation. Perhaps, a better question would be why Lambden is restoring what was considered vandalism (like I said, Lambden's editing on Wikipedia consists mostly of trying to stir things up and create unnecessary drama (take a peak at his user page for some more evidence as to his purpose here)). There's another piece of bad faithed manipulation in Lambden's presentation of the timeline. He might have pinged me at 22:26 while I made another edit at 22:27. But that's essentially at the same time. I didn't see Lambden's ping until about 5:09 when I returned to editing [107] (had to make dinner and stuff in the meantime). So his suggestion that I was even aware of his stupid threats to take me to AE - which is really at that his contribution to the discussion consists of - is false. I wasn't. I had shit to do. By the time I cam back the edit had been reverted anyway. But hey, Lambden just couldn't let it go, he couldn't pass up an opportunity to file an AE report however spurious it may be. This kind of battleground attitude on his part has characterized all of my interactions with Lambden, and most of his interactions with other users as well.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:47, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Oh yeah, one more thing. I seem to recall it being stated several times that the restriction about "before reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion)" being removed from the DS sanctions because it was so damn confusing. There's always disagreement about whether it's the removal or the inclusion which is "reinstating any edits" and what constitutes a status quo piece of article text. MelanieN removed the restriction from some articles and IIRC Sandstein has noted, here I think, that there's no basis in any ArbCom decision for such a restriction. And it does seem very stupid to be dragged to AE for a single edit (especially since the same edit had been made by several other editors - just Lambden is not currently engaged in harrasing THOSE editors, just me).Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:00, 12 July 2017 (UTC) @DennisBrown and the 5 days thing - sure, but I've seen that argument made before and we have don't have a good working definition of what "status quo" is. It's obviously different for high-edit articles than for low-edit articles. But how much? In fact, "forfeits their right to object" because they haven't edited the article in some time is EXACTLY what this restriction establishes/enshrines. Say it was 10 days. So you forfeit your right to object if you don't edit it for 10 days. Is that alright? 15 days? Etc. So blame the restriction. Which I think is really silly to begin with, for this exact reason.Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:09, 13 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Sagecandor[edit]Appears to be trumped up attempt by complainant to have remedies imposed on Volunteer Marek in this case. Complainant cites one (1) diff, twice, in the complaint. Volunteer Marek was participating in talk page discussion, which is a good thing and is encouraged in cases like these. Volunteer Marek was correct that previously there was consensus to include the term prominently, and prior versions did so as recently as 21 June in the 5th sentence of the article. It is also quite unfair to Volunteer Marek to have diffs in the evidence by the complainant presented, that are NOT edits by Volunteer Marek but by multiple other users including Don1182 and Grayfell. Sagecandor (talk) 05:59, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Agree with GoldenRing [108] and Sandstein [109], regarding the lack of basis for the nature of the restriction here. Further, agree with analysis by Dennis Brown that there is no actionable issue at this point in time, and as a content dispute and not an AE issue, further discussion is merited, at the article's talk page [110]. Sagecandor (talk) 16:42, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Volunteer Marek[edit]
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Neuwert
[edit]| Neuwert blocked for 48 hours for 1RR violation. GoldenRing (talk) 09:14, 13 July 2017 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Neuwert[edit]
Editor is new and seems to be a hard charger. I am mainly doing this so he/she understands better how the process works and to go to the talk page.
Discussion concerning Neuwert[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Neuwert[edit]I will not edit here anymore. Bad place for that. You can block me forever in order to keep me aware of the truth instead a forged one. The reality is much better. I want to be far from the arrogance, stupidity and inappropriate words the oldest editors say. Be happy with this parallel universe made by frustrated people. That's why Wikipedia is riducularizaded when mention, mainly in the academy. Statement by Sagecandor[edit]Agree with analysis by EdJohnston of evidence presented by Casprings. Suggest a two-day-block, and also a warning of a potential future topic ban if issues persist later. Sagecandor (talk) 05:48, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Neuwert[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by User:Hyper9
[edit]| Appeal declined. Seraphimblade Talk to me 20:35, 14 July 2017 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by User:Hyper9[edit]Reason for the appeal There has been a round of edit warring on the Chera_dynasty page. The two editors (one of whom was me) that were involved have used several rounds of edits to improve the page and a closely related one. Several rounds of discussion by the other editor and me were held on the Talk page, in the middle of which this Administrator chose to suddenly serve a 'Sanctions' warning. The next warning was served in a complete opaque manner and I immediately sought clarifications on what behaviour is being censured by the Admin - but there was no satisfactory response. Now, the sanctions have been imposed for an edit by me on the said page. The other warring editors have not responded on the Talk page for ONE week (after I even went to the length of providing screenshots of referenced pages) but have gone ahead with their disruptive edits and removed referenced/sourced content. I reverted this and all of a sudden the Sanctions were imposed on me. When I pointedly asked what is the action for which the sanction has been imposed - this Administrator (User:SpacemanSpiff) had no response (see Talk page end). As with any edit warring - there are two parties involved. This Administrator has shown themselves to be highly biased in never ONCE censuring the other editor (with whom they regularly interact). I would also like to point out that the Administrator has been quite involved in the page in the past and I would hardly rule out the fact that they are imposing their own POVs on the content. A second reason for a conflict of interest is the fact that the page (and content) that is being disputed is about the area directly opposite their stated location on their User page - and appears to be wholly biased with regard to this topic regarding neighbouring geographies. This Admin has a clear conflict of interest in administrating this page and as a genuine contributor (the largest active contributor of the Chera_dynasty page), I would like to request this action to be revoked or reduced and another uninvolved administrator to look into future edits on this page. I would also like, as a WP user and the largest contributing Editor of this page, to raise a formal complaint against this Administrator (User:SpacemanSpiff). I would like to record it here and if pointed out, will add it to any other place if needed. Hyper9 (talk) 01:26, 14 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by User:SpacemanSpiff[edit]
A similar situation is going on at Chera dynasty where there was an edit war between Hyper9 and Cpt.a.haddock. MelanieN protected the page and warned them both. Subsequently Doug Weller and RegentsPark joined the two editors in the discussions and edited the article based on that, but were consistently reverted by Hyper9 -- [112], [113], [114], [115]. All this has to be taken in the context of the talk page discussions and if one reads Talk:Chera_dynasty#Cheras_as_Malayalam_or_Tamil_speakers and other posts further down from there, consensus is that this is WP:SYNTHESIS and doesn't belong, but Hyper9 has evaluated consensus for themselves that there's no synthesis and refuses to acknowledge that the other opinions hold (and the constant reverts on the article) and repeatedly says the same thing, which the others have stopped responding to as there's nothing new there. I think this sanction is absolutely necessary at this point and would recommend against it being removed. —SpacemanSpiff 03:49, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Cpt.a.haddock[edit]
Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by User:Hyper9[edit]Result of the appeal by User:Hyper9[edit]
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LesVegas
[edit]| No AE action taken. This matter can be reported to WP:ANI if desired, which is the place in which to request enforcement of community sanctions. Sandstein 14:31, 15 July 2017 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning LesVegas[edit]
This is two instances of obvious and petty trolling in violation of their TBAN. I think it is time for an indefinite block as they don't do anything here but this, but a block longer than 60 hours is at least called for.
Discussion concerning LesVegas[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by LesVegas[edit]Jytdog declared a personal vendetta against me after I helped get him topic banned from GMO's, broadly construed, so I'm not surprised he's jumping the gun on this issue. Yes, I was blocked for alluding to a topic on Playalake's talkpage before. This time I did not. I'm just giving him a newbie welcome and pat on the head is all (and Arthur Long), and I would be more than happy to show anyone the email I sent. The email contained no allusions whatsoever regarding the topic I was banned for. Since the email was sent through Wikipedia's official system, I would welcome any admins/bureaucrats with access it to post it here for everyone's viewing. Let me ask a serious question: since Jytdog was topic banned from GMO's, is he allowed to greet or interact with anyone editing the GMO topic? Because that's all I did, and if he seriously wants to pursue this action against me, I would love to provide diffs to show how black his pot is. So do I have this straight: I'm not allowed to say "Welcome to Wikipedia!" if that editor happens to have edited on a topic that I can't edit on? Is that what I'm being accused of? LesVegas (talk) 01:17, 13 July 2017 (UTC) One more thing: the whole reason I ever sent some welcoming love towards editors like Playalake is that I saw diffs like this this (edit warring with a newbie on talk pages, just sad). If Jytdog is going to behave like this (which is exactly the kind of behavior that got him TBanned at GMO, I might add), there would be no need to show a new editor that not everyone on Wikipedia acts like that. The last thing I'd ever want to see is an editor be discouraged to edit because they believe everyone here bullies them like Jytdog. LesVegas (talk) 15:09, 13 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Sagecandor[edit]Clear violation. Evidence as presented by Jytdog is clear cut and strong. The topic ban as given by BU Rob13 is "broadly construed". Last violation resulted in block for 60 hours. Suggest longer block than that, this time. Sagecandor (talk) 23:44, 12 July 2017 (UTC) I note that LesVegas proudly displays the Graham's hierarchy of disagreement image [117] on their userpage [118]. Unfortunately, the focus of their choice of response, here, appears to stem from the 2nd-to-last-level of that very hierarchy, including the choice of edit summary in the edit, itself: DIFF. Sagecandor (talk) 00:44, 13 July 2017 (UTC) Comment by Newyorkbrad[edit]Just as a point of clarification, administrators and bureaucrats have no ability to read other users' e-mails. (Nor do arbitrators.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:44, 13 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Kingsindian[edit]Perhaps I'm dense, but I see no mention of acupuncture in any of the diffs. Emails, of course, don't fall under topic bans. The relevant basis for sanctioning the behaviour would be editing by proxy. Is there any evidence that this has occured? If not, I don't see a case here. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 05:22, 13 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Johnuniq[edit]@Sandstein: " They show LesVegas offering advice to two new editors, each of whom has edited only at Talk:Acupuncture. The advice did not mention acupuncture but it obviously concerns that topic. Is it necessary to ask for a clarification regarding whether such comments violate a topic ban? @BU Rob13: As the admin who imposed the topic ban (17 December 2016), would you like to comment? Is it acceptable for a topic banned editor to monitor relevant talk pages, then offer welcoming advice to new editors who have a common POV? Johnuniq (talk) 06:23, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
Statement by (Roxy the dog)[edit]@Dennis Brown, Les' comments to two strictly Acupuncture WP:SPA editors are clearly in violation of the broadly construed topic ban. Les seeks to be disruptive in the Acu area, as these two editors have been. What is difficult to see regarding this infringement? He's adressing acu SPAs for goodness sake. @Bish - no time is a bad time for wielding the banhammer on disruptive editors.-Roxy the dog. bark 15:04, 13 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Kingofaces43[edit]Mention of the GMO topic caught my eye (albeit a red herring in this conservation), but I'll admit LesVegas' extreme adversarial attitude here shows that enforcement of the broadly construed topic ban is needed without the presence of interaction bans to prevent LesVegas from going after editors they've had disputes with in their topic-banned area. Some admins so far seem to be missing that these communications were with purely SPA accounts in the topic area. That is the distinguishing feature and should be a clear violation of trying to skirt the ban, which broadly construed is supposed to account for. Had these been established users that edit in a variety of topics, then it would be more of a gray zone. The slipperly slope LesVegas is trying to imply in their lashing out here would really only apply if Jytdog was interacting with GMO SPAs, but not editors with other overlapping subject areas. The editors LesVegas were getting in contact with only edit in their topic-ban area. There's no other way than to say LesVegas was interested in them because of where the SPAs edited, and I have seen cases where topic-banned editors were blocked because it was apparent they were following ongoings in their topic area as we see here. DS are also meant to deal with problem behavior in the topic area. Violating a topic ban is one of those, which can place action dealing with that at AE regardless of where the ban originated. When DS are imposed at ArbCom, they are intended in part to deal with controversial subject areas at AE rather than at ANI where controversial subjects are often not handled well. The only time ANI would need to follow-up on this particular topic ban is if it was the actual appeal of the topic ban. Kingofaces43 (talk) 18:56, 13 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by Beyond My Ken[edit]I understand and agree with Dennis' point that because the TBan was not an AE action, this is the wrong forum for the complaint to have been filed in, however, we have a situation where the admin who imposed the TBan agrees that Les Vegas' actions were a violation of the intent of the ban, so it seems unnecessarily bureaucratic to restart the discussion at AN/I. As pointed out, admins don't necessarily need a consensus discussion before they enforce a sanction, and this would appear to be a case where it would be appropriate for an admin to block Les Vegas for his behavior on their own initiative, not as an AE action. If the admin wants community confirmation of their action, they can always open a block review thread on AN. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:23, 14 July 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning LesVegas[edit]
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![[117]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg){kind=link}