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August 31

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August 31, 2015 (2015-08-31) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology
  • Conservationists report in Oryx, the International Journal of Conservation that the Sumatran Rhino is now considered extinct in the wild in Malaysia. No new wild animals have been spotted since 2007, elsewhere fewer than 100 Rhinos remain in the wild. (MSN)

[Closed] Hurricane Fred (2015)

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MEH
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ --Jayron32 17:55, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Hurricane Fred (2015) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hurricane Fred makes landfall in the Cape Verde Islands (Post)
News source(s): (BBC)
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Extremely rare for a hurricane to be this far east. Mjroots (talk) 20:48, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nearest quasar is a binary black hole

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[[File:|140px|Proposed image ]]
Articles: Markarian 231 (talk · history · tag) and Binary black hole (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The source of nearest known quasar, located in galaxy Markarian 231, is reported to be a binary black hole. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ alt image: File:Hubble Interacting Galaxy UGC 8058 (2008-04-24).jpg
News source(s): CNN The Daily Mail
Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: A nice change of pace from the disaster-related events filling ITN lately. Somebody will need to do an expansion on the article if this is deemed fit for ITN. Nergaal (talk) 20:41, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Quote: "the findings suggest the binary system may be more common that first thought", and IMO (crystalballing) they might be the best source for detection of gravitational waves. Nergaal (talk) 21:20, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The currently nominated blurb is fine, quasars are named for quasi-stellar objects because although they are far outside out galaxy, they shine as brightly as nearby stars. Yes, that's technical, but we don't limit ourselves to the ignorance of our broadest readership. (Otherwise no sports records would ever get posted.) We post the most concise headers that will be clear to those readers of ours schooled in such matters. μηδείς (talk) 21:04, 6 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well unmarking, yet again, because the main article has an orange maintenance tag (and is a stub with bad references and dab links, did you read it?). It would be preferable if this was fixed and if we had a blurb that actually gave our general audience a feeling for the significance, despite our own clear super-intelligent understanding of the point of the story. Final nail is that it seemed that this "significant" news was released on 27 August, so this nomination is actually stale, regardless of the pitiful quality of the article/update. I advise Medeis to refrain from nominating such poor nominations as Ready in the future, this is really weak. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 6 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Lord Montagu

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No consensus: Re-closing this contentious nomination. I think it is clear at this point that there is no reasonable likelihood of gaining consensus here. Recent comments seem to be generating more heat than light. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:50, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Edward Douglas-Scott-Montagu, 3rd Baron Montagu of Beaulieu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Described as "one of the pioneers of the stately home industry" and as "a leading authority on veteran and vintage cars" by the BBC. Everymorning (talk) 17:21, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
ITNDC does not require that the subject was at the top of their field. only that they were very important. I agree that this is not the strongest nominee, but your assessment seems overly harsh and IMO does not reflect what the article says of the man. -Ad Orientem (talk) 06:11, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Post-close whingeing comment Not only was he one of the first British aristocrats to open up his ancestral home to the public, but his notability in a high-profile and controversial court case led to a widely-read memoirs and a TV documentary. Hardly an unknown non-entity. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:09, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comments that seem to have strayed off topic and are generating more heat than light. If there is a desire to continue this discussion, perhaps the talk page would be a better venue. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:14, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody argued he was an "unknown non-entity". I still don't think he belongs in ITN for reasons stated above. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:46, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Closing this so early with many supports is really poor show. Perhaps it's just because he was British that this has been binned so soon. The shame. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:51, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, I count at least five supports and that's enough to keep the discussion alive, so I'm re-opening it. And I'm guessing (guessing) that most of the opposes are from those from outside the UK.... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:53, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You really want us to go down that road again? (FWIW, not arguing against reopening it, but do we have to relive the US vs. UK b.s.?) – Muboshgu (talk) 18:56, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know, I didn't start that discussion, you may wish to review "Mount McKinley renamed". The Rambling Man (talk) 18:59, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Where big U.S. news was dismissed out of hand by a bunch of Brits? Rather not. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:00, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not really sure I understand. This isn't US Wikipedia. And the opposition came from Americans, Dutch, Australians... did you check your assertion of "a bunch of Brits" or did you just make it up? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:04, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Muboshgu it would be helpful to see your reasoning here please. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:21, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, you just fabricated it. Please don't do that again in the future, it's unhelpful and misleading, and maybe worse, unbecoming of someone with your experience. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:33, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't fabricate anything. I saw who a number of the opposers were when that discussion was going on. I've seen the use of the word "parochial" by British Wikipedians on this page over time. I'm sure some Americans and Australians and whoever else also opposed it, but the British opposition I saw seemed dismissive based on it being a "local" issue. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, you made a mistake, that's fine, we all do it from time to time. Alternatively, please identify the "bunch of Brits" you claim to be behind this conspiracy! (and note, most of those people who opposed weren't British, despite your claim)... The Rambling Man (talk) 20:51, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Come now Rambler, you're getting carried away again. Or was it you, Muboshgu, I forget now. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:57, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - a notable figure in the UK because of his renowned motor museum and his heritage work. Personally, I wasn't even aware of his importance in LGBT history until the obits - but that alone should push him over the RD blurb threshold. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:00, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. One of the first British aristocrats to open up his ancestral home to the public. I don't really think he's "an unwilling homosexual martyr in need of canonization", and many feel his experience helped lead to a change in the law in UK. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:01, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • The subject is notable, but the problem that I see is that the article is in bad shape. I'd throw in my support, but not until the article has been improved. You can't just support just for nobility, the article matters too. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:23, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support is fully acceptable here, as far as I know. If there is more support perhaps more editors will "throw their support into improving the article". Martinevans123 (talk) 19:34, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You're opposing because he wasn't a real genuine homosexual, yes? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:30, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if he had the courage to admit, that might have been noteworthy. Otherwise it looks as if nothing like that happened. Brandmeistertalk 21:39, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes, right, he was one of those cowardly gays.... nothing happened... and "3, 2, 1, you're back in the cell!" Martinevans123 (talk) 21:52, 1 September 2015 (UTC) [1][reply]
  • I thought this famous for being famous nomination was closed. I have nothing against Montagu, and I am 80% homo myself. So the accusations of "IDONTLIKEIT" are simply projection. What I actually don't like is a very mediocre person being championed basically for identity reasons. Were he straight this would never have been nominated. μηδείς (talk) 22:32, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And if he were straight, he might never have gone to prison? But he still might have opened Britain's National Motor Museum, served as a peer in the House of Lords, and been chairman of English Heritage? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:56, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I thought it was clear my opinion was that those matters on their own don't merit an RD listing. I don't think the nomination was not in good faith, I simply don't think it merits posting. Nor would I be terribly vexed should this be posted. μηδείς (talk) 00:56, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Your original oppose reasoning seems, to me, quite bizarre. I don't see why User:Everymorning did not nominate in perfectly good faith. But so glad you would not be "vexed". Martinevans123 (talk) 07:39, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the sarcasm, I missed my noon coffee. Perhaps you also have a spare stick for up my ass? I am not about to apologize for your misreading or for your dudgeon when I explain myself politely. μηδείς (talk) 17:13, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional Support - For the record, Montagu maintained that he was bisexual (rather than gay), but that he was innocent of the specific charge which led to his becoming a famous name in LGBT history. But I first heard of him in his capacity as the chairman of English Heritage, who was responsible for its successful rebranding from being the 'Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission'. At the moment our article on his life says far too little about this and his other contributions to heritage preservation and public life. My support is conditional on this being remedied. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:42, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Aristocrat who dabbled in various fields (politics, motoring etc.) and had a minor role in 1950s gay rights. Interesting enough article, but not sufficiently significant to be RD material. Modest Genius talk 23:09, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Post close clarification. I don't have anything spare for Medeis's ass, not least a stick. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:02, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 30

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August 30, 2015 (2015-08-30) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

RD: M. M. Kalburgi

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Article: M. M. Kalburgi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Scholar, researcher, and renowned figure in Kannada literature and Vachana Sahitya. Recipient of many prestigious awards indicating he was on top of his field. He was shot dead at his residence. 1.39.61.7 (talk) 14:03, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Wes Craven

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Article: Wes Craven (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): hollywoodreporter VanityFair
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Director of "Scream" and "Nightmare on Elm Street" -- Callinus (talk) 01:57, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been vastly improved. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:34, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Looks pretty good to me, thank you. Re-posting. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:02, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted to RD] RD: Nelson Shanks

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Article: Nelson Shanks (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Renowned artist and who painted a large amount of portraits to people of high importance. Art has been put in high class art institutions. Known for Princess Diana, Bill Clinton "blue dress", Ronald Reagan, and Pope John Paul II portraits. Article in good shape. Died on the 28th but death was announced today. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:09, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Bump: Temple of Bel

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Proposed image
Article: Temple of Bel (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ After the demolition of the Temple of Baalshamin, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant blows up the ancient Temple of Bel in Palmyra (pictured). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The ancient Temples of Bel and Baalshamin in Palmyra are destroyed by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
News source(s): USA Today, France24
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Propose to bump the story with the Temple of Baalshamin, although the reported damage so far is partial. Brandmeistertalk 22:05, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose – Tragic loss of cultural heritage, but the temple is appears less significant than Baalshamin (just an assumption since it's not classified a UNESCO World Heritage site like Baalshamin is) and it's only partially destroyed. We can't really go on reporting all the things ISIL blows up (exaggerating here, but you get my point). Cyclonebiskit (talk) 22:21, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - per Cyclonebiskit. Not as significant, and posting sets a precedent for all the vandalism to come. Jusdafax 00:41, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment do you want to propose merging this with Baalshamin? Destruction of cultural heritage by ISIL is an OK target that has a range of different things they've destroyed.-- Callinus (talk) 02:03, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add to the blurb on the Temple of Baalshamin. That's what we did the last time these people started blowing up ancient things. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:11, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support merge with the Temple of Baalshamin blurb. Palmyra as a whole is a World Heritage site and this is an important part of it. This temple is/was an almost 2000-year-old, archaeologically very important site, and such a destruction of notable cultural heritage, part of a World Heritage site, is a significant event that would warrant posting. All the vandalism to come can be discussed as it comes along, but there aren't really many more World Heritage sites under ISIS control. --GGT (talk) 07:27, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support merge & bump. As I posted in the Baalshamin nomination, this event can serve as an introduction point for readers to eminantly encyclopedic topics (ancient architecture & anthropology), and is something that readers would not get from a standard news source. As such, this plays exactly to the strengths of ITN on Wikipedia. I've added an altblurb for consideration.128.214.53.18 (talk) 10:51, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That report is headlined, "Syria's Palmyra Temple of Bel 'severely damaged' by IS." Sca (talk) 14:41, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - So now you have set a precedent, RM, by putting it at the top again. I ask you, if IS destroys more temples do we keep bumping it up? It could be our first ever semi-permanent blurb. I think this bump needs to be discussed before this kind of placement. Jusdafax 16:59, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously true, and equally obviously heinous and regrettable, but it is not at all the point of my comment. TRM, by repositioning the story sets a precedent, and my question remains: shouldn't this new type of long-lasting blurb be discussed by ITN editors, or are we content to have this as the new status quo here? If IS destroys even more temples in the wide swath of territory they control, do we keep on bumping to the top of ITN? I find this new order questionable. Jusdafax 22:00, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted & Closed] Mount McKinley renamed

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There is a clear consensus in favor posting and recent comments seem to be adding little to the discussion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:47, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Mount McKinley (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President of the United States Barack Obama announces the renaming of Mount McKinley as Denali. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times USA Today
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The renaming of the tallest mountain in North America that has been known as Mount McKinley since 1896 seems significant. Everymorning (talk) 21:44, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you review the naming dispute article you will understand this has been a political dispute for many years(Ohio politicans are upset while Alaska's are happy); it is receiving much coverage, even internationally to some degree (BBC Irish Times). Textbooks and maps will need to be rewritten; this is a significant change, just as renaming Mount Everest or any highly significant geographical feature would be. Saying that we don't take this seriously is also mildly offensive. You disagreeing with what consensus determines to be posted doesn't mean we aren't serious. 331dot (talk) 09:24, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not just "some mountain". It's the tallest mountain in North America. It'd get the same treatment if it was Mt Kilimanjaro, Mt Everest, or Aconcagua. Further, this isn't a global encyclopedia, it's English Wikipedia. You say it's not news locally. Where is local to you? Because I'm about 4500 miles away, and it was front page on Google News. Just because it's not local in NSW Australia or Johannesburg, South Africa, doesn't mean it's not news in other English speaking parts of the world. See the original rebuttal to the first opposition above.
Local news 1 and 2, to go with the countless national and international stories on this. Twirly Pen (Speak up) 09:47, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
They're just jealous because England doesn't have any mountains. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:52, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No, they do have mountains in England, just none whose peaks are nearly as high above sea level as Denali. Much of the North of England is quite rugged, at least as rugged as the Appalachian region of North America (and interestingly, geologically related to it). See Furness Fells for just one example. In England, these areas are called Fells rather than mountain ranges, but they mean the same thing. --Jayron32 18:16, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have to say that claiming that opposition to this story is based on some bizarre concept of "mountain envy" is absolutely and tragically pathetic. I'm not sure most of the English-speaking world (outside of America) cares about the nomenclature attributed to this mountain, but it seemed to gather enough attention to get the support required. I will also note that at least one of the opposition is not "English". It would be better not to say anything than say something as crassly absurd in the future. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:07, 31 August 2015 (UTC
Have you ever considered that he could've been joking? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:58, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Forgot the "small". Now fixed. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:08, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • support renaming an iconic landmark --Johnsemlak (talk) 17:13, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support. Surely if Mont Blanc or Everest were renamed we would post those too. Calidum 00:18, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Late oppose "The United States renames a mountain" doesn't strike me as important or interesting. I'm sure Alaska cares, but it's awfully local news. Places change names all the time. The !votes here are also mostly straight votes: the only argument being made is that it doesn't seem to happen very often. This is understandable, as most of the voters on this item seem to be infrequently active on ITN/C. For future reference, you should add a rationale that's more than "it's notable" or "it's significant", and that is not only about criticizing an oppose vote. Finally, note that most news websites will tailor their content based on geolocation: the front page of, let's say, The Guardian will look different depending on what country you're from. Isa (talk) 00:28, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I must disagree with that assessment; Please give examples of places changing names "all the time". Even if they do, they do not often get extensive coverage. Further, we are talking about the highest mountain on an entire continent, not a neighborhood street or minor stream. I don't see how the opinons expressed are "mostly" votes; I see two. News outlets may use geolocation, but they still created or published the story which indicates it is notable and covered. 331dot (talk) 00:45, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is also not "local news", as it involves two states; Ohio, where politicians are upset and some are exploring ways to reverse it or challenge it in court; and Alaska, where people are happy about the decision that they have wanted since statehood. 331dot (talk) 00:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Existence of news reporting affect the notability, i.e. whether we have the article in the first place, not how "big" it is in terms of news (headline news vs. something buried in the middle of a printed newspaper). Wikipedia is supposed to be global, not US centric. Involving two states of the USA is still "local" as far as the rest of the world is concerned. As I pointed out above re Reuters, the story didn't even make headline within the US edition, and was nowhere to be seen in the other editions. Similarly for other news orgs that did pick up the story later on. That's just not significant enough news for me for ITN, but others disagree. -- KTC (talk) 11:42, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, but I saw this on plenty of sites as a top story(as have others, as stated above). Most of the opposes here seem to be IDONTLIKEIT. 331dot (talk) 12:04, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For Isa: There are seven widely recognized continents, and thus there are only seven peaks in the entire world that are considered the tallest on their continent. Could you cite the last time one of the seven highest continental peaks was renamed? --Jayron32 02:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's a very major mountain of Earth, Denali is the 3rd highest top of a continent and higher points are only in West People's Republic of China, a short distance from it, and Ecuador to mid-Chile. It's the highest point closer than about 50 degrees from a pole (63°N 151°W)·. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:43, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This sounds like a rhetorical question, but here goes: none of the seven highest mountains seem to have been renamed since their discovery by western explorers, the most recent being the Vinson Massif in 1958. Isa (talk) 15:47, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Good, so would you agree that such an event would not be "common", and posting such an event, on average, once every 60 years or so, would not unduly tax our ability at ITN to keep up with such developments? --Jayron32 16:20, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. But it doesn't change my opinion that this is not particularly "in the news", that it's fairly local news and that I don't think it should be on the main page. The fact that it's a big mountain is irrelevant to me. Isa (talk) 16:56, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And it really is "super"-local, but ITN doesn't disallow that kind of thing, particularly if a massive consensus appears while the rest of the world is sleeping. Ten hours seems like a legitimate amount of time for a consensus to form, even if the story is localised to one nation, and has disappeared from view virtually straight away. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:01, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - whilst I'm neutral on whether this should be on ITN or not, I feel it was posted too early. The nomination was made late at night British/European time, and posted in the eraly hours of the following morning. In other words, the discussion ran when it would have been mainly those from North/South America wiould have seen it. Given that this was likely to be contraversial, and in order to avoid claims of systemic bias, I feel full consensus should only have been gained after at least 24 hours.  — An optimist on the run! (logged on as Pek the Penguin) 14:27, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Arbitrary minimum discussion times or requiring comment from around the world before posting are perennial proposals here; they have never and probably won't gain consensus. 331dot (talk) 14:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
331 beat me to it. I'd also say that 10 hours is a fairly typical time frame from the nomination to posting in cases where the article is up to snuff. (At least three other items -- the European migrant crisis under ongoing and two recent deaths -- were posted in recent days in less time than it took for this to be posted.) It's also interesting that these complaints seemingly are only raised when a topic pertaining to the U.S. is posted "too soon." Calidum 14:34, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not surprised. I've felt there is a pretty strong British bias in ITN for some time. Resolute 14:37, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not surprised it was posted, it's a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't here. News is slow at the moment, so adding a non-event like this to the main page which gained sufficient consensus isn't really a problem. Interesting that many of those in opposition aren't actually British either. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:44, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In case this was in part directed at me, I'm not British. There are English-speaking people all over the world. Some even have it as a second language. We're all biased in some way, but I believe everyone here is acting in good faith and trying to be as neutral as possible. Don't make this an "us against them". Isa (talk) 15:55, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Not to worry, I'm sure Resolute understands that he made a mistake correlating a perceived British bias with this specific case. No big deal. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:50, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As one of the opposer, I don't actually have a problem with the posting. Sure I disagree with it, but consensus was there, even if it's not unanimous. -- KTC (talk) 15:15, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. All the over-defensive claimants can now relax... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:50, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So we should probably close this and let the blurb fall off in its course, yes? – Muboshgu (talk) 17:05, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] 2015 World Championships in Athletics

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Closed as a terrible indictment of ITNR. The article is appalling, it's probably worthy seeking this particular item's removal from ITNR given the abject apathetic response from those ardent supporters who did absolutely nothing to improve the article. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:40, 4 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2015 World Championships in Athletics (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In athletics, the World Championships conclude in Beijing with Kenya being the most successful country. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In athletics, the World Championships conclude in Beijing with Kenya and Jamaica winning the most gold medals.
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: The World Championships in Athletics usually attract the world elite in athletics and its popularity is rapidly growing so that the competition every time receives wider media coverage and broadcast to a record-breaking number of people. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:10, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted to RD] RD: Oliver Sacks

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Article: Oliver Sacks (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  English-born neurologist, professor of neurology at New York University School of Medicine and Columbia University, author of The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat and An Anthropologist on Mars. (Post)
News source(s): NYT BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Legendary neurologist and certainly top of his field. Article in good enough shape. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 09:25, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 29

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August 29, 2015 (2015-08-29) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

[Closed] RD: Kyle Jean-Baptiste

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UNANIMOUSLY OPPOSED.:

The third recent death from the same day will be posted soon. (I might be wrong) I'll create DYK nomination of this soon. --George Ho (talk) 15:35, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: Kyle Jean-Baptiste (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC New York Times CNN The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Being the first black actor to play the lead role in Les Miserables on Broadway, as well as the youngest person to do so, combined with the sudden and unexpected nature of his death and the fact that it has been reported on by news outlets all over the world, seems to establish that Jean-Baptiste meets the RD criteria (specifically criterion 2) despite the fact that he did not have an article until after he died. Everymorning (talk) 13:46, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Al Jazeera reporters sentenced to prison

[edit]
no consensus, article tagged, feel free to reopen upon major cleanup μηδείς (talk) 03:37, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2013–15 detention of Al Jazeera journalists by Egypt (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Three Al Jazeera reporters detained in Egypt are sentenced to prison time for broadcasting "false news". (Post)
News source(s): CNN The Guardian ABC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Significant development in a long-running and highly controversial criminal case in Egypt involving freedom of the press. Kudzu1 (talk) 20:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to go ahead and just state that I oppose this as not significant. 331dot (talk) 21:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I do find it personally interesting; but it is not significant that a country with a poor press freedom record jails journalists. Nor is it surprising that other journalists would report on it. Now, if a country with press freedom suddenly started jailing journalists for their reporting, yes, that would be significant news. Location matters; and we aren't here to right great wrongs. 331dot (talk) 07:22, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The sources show only that this is in the news and why, not how important it is. Discussion here is often subjective, weighing what stories are more or less important. Subjective decisions like this do not require, and sometimes are not able to, provide a rational much better than an intuitive WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Mamyles (talk) 08:56, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 28

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August 28, 2015 (2015-08-28) (Friday)
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Sports

[Posted] RD: Al Arbour

[edit]
Article: Al Arbour (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Post, TSN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: "Legendary" hockey coach. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:42, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Tropical Storm Erika

[edit]
Article: Tropical Storm Erika (2015) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Flash floods and mudslides produced by Tropical Storm Erika kill at least 20 people across Dominica in the Lesser Antilles. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Flash floods and mudslides produced by Tropical Storm Erika kill at least 12 people and leave more than 20 missing across Dominica in the Lesser Antilles.
News source(s): IBT, CBS
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Major disaster, easily one of the worst in recent years for Dominica, unfolding. Death toll has spiked from 4 yesterday to 25 this morning, and it could rise further as others are likely still missing. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 12:48, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted to ongoing] Ongoing or blurb: European migrant crisis

[edit]
Article: European migrant crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): Truck in Austria with at least 70 bodies, Hundreds drowned after boat capsizes
Credits:

Nominator's comments: At least two capsizes with hundreds dead or missing, and the truck in a lay-by in Austria with at least 70 decomposing bodies... this is notable stuff. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:00, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Posting, since the support is clear. --Tone 12:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
While this has been posted, a question is on the frequency of these stories. Is this not a continuation of events from roughly a year ago when (as I recall) two boats loaded with migrants capsized in the Med. Sea, prompting the EU to start to take steps to avoid these disasters? If this is a months-long type story where there might be a news bit every week or so, that doesn't seem to be what ongoing is for. --MASEM (t) 17:20, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is to highlight three migrant disasters in the space of two days. Alternatively we could ignore it all entirely. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:01, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not questioning the disasters, but that are we having these disasters on a frequent enough basis for ongoing, or is a blurb more appropriate to highlight three rather close events all linked to the long-running crisis? --MASEM (t) 18:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The nomination made it clear that we could either go for a combined blurb or Ongoing. Either way it needs to be covered. Or would you rather we remove it? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:08, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm questioning that this was posted as ongoing, when a blurb seems to make more sense since we're not talking about events that are normally being updated on a daily basis. The news should still be ITN, no question, but as a blurb in my opinion. --MASEM (t) 18:21, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so you just mean "Support as blurb", unlike the seven who supported the ongoing posting? The option was there. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:22, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Right, it's opposition to the post as ongoing, but support posting as blurb. --MASEM (t) 18:27, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Did you suggest a blurb we could consider? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:51, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"In the ongoing European migrant crisis, two separate shipwrecks off Libya kill about 500 migrants, while about 71 migrants are found dead in a truck in Austria." --MASEM (t) 18:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks. I oppose that and think we should stick with Ongoing. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:01, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 27

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August 27, 2015 (2015-08-27) (Thursday)
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Politics and elections

[Posted] India free from neonatal tetanus

[edit]
Article: Neonatal tetanus (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ India is declared free from maternal and neonatal tetanus (Post)
News source(s): The Times of INdia
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: A milestone in health care that will have implications for other health programs in developing countries. Also a good break from all the current disasters ITN. (My first nom in this section, please bear with me.) w.carter-Talk 12:09, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Darryl Dawkins

[edit]

Nomination stale due to another most recent death. --George Ho (talk) 13:56, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: Darryl Dawkins (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USA Today The Guardian National Public Radio
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Flamboyant and eccentric personality in the NBA for many years, credited/blamed for the NBA ordering redesigned basketball rims because of his propensity for shattering the backboard with his powerful slam dunks. Death is receiving international attention. Kudzu1 (talk) 23:45, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Not a leader in his field, unless smashing backboards is now considered a legitimate field.--WaltCip (talk) 00:00, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not in the NBA Hall of Fame or widely considered to be a player of that caliber. SpencerT♦C 00:56, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support upon update/improvement. Being important to the field doesn't just mean being the greatest player, it can mean influencing the rules of the sport, as was done in this case. 331dot (talk) 01:02, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on improvements, definitely a significant persona within the sport of basketball. A person's legacy and impact cannot always be measured by data or measurables, and Dawkins had that sort of impact on the culture of the sport. The attention his death receives is evidence enough that people will be looking for the article at Wikipedia for more information about him. For that reason if the article is improved to minimum quality, it should be posted. --Jayron32 02:48, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Induction into a hall of fame is usually the baseline for professional athlete nominations, although that's not a requirement. I guess there's some sort of nebulous "personality of the NBA" thing going on here, but I don't see anything to objectively recommend this: no scoring titles, no league championships, no MVPs, no All-Star selections, pretty much nothing except breaking backboards. Not enough. --Bongwarrior (talk) 03:11, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the article is as of yet woefully underreferenced, but he was a household name even to folks like me who have never played nor followed the sport. The article also shows he paled in comparison only to players like Kareem Abdul Jabar. First player drafted out of high school and many other items point to his greatness. Not making the hall of fame by his fifties, and not winning the MVP for championships his team did not win are not reasons to oppose the nomination. μηδείς (talk) 04:37, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The NBA Most Valuable Player Award, which I was referring to, is a regular season accomplishment and isn't contingent on winning a championship. The Finals MVP is a separate award. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:05, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also, not only does he pale in comparison to Abdul-Jabbar, there is absolutely no comparison to be made. In terms of accomplishments, they are in completely different universes. You may as well compare Mario Mendoza to Hank Aaron. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would hope we'd post Mendoza's death to ITN. That's actually a great example: a player who wasn't incredibly talented, but who had a profound influence on the sport (Dawkins by forcing the NBA to change its conventions, Mendoza by becoming a statistical byword for borderline hitting). -Kudzu1 (talk) 19:40, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are they? I'm not recalling any questionable baseball or hockey players being posted to RD. Do you have any examples? --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:29, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's the reverse, actually. In 2013, ITN did not post Sergei Belov, Bill Sharman and Walt Bellamy. I don't remember anyone related to basketball being posted last year, and we didn't post basketball players (we did post Tark and Dean Smith, though) this year. –HTD 20:39, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The article isn't great. I also don't believe retired athletes should be posted to RD unless they are a member of their respective sport's hall of fame or at least won multiple MVPs. Calidum 19:52, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] 60% of psychology studies published in top journals fail reproducibility test

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SNOW closing; no consensus to post. 331dot (talk) 20:25, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Psychology (talk · history · tag) and Social science (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 60% of randomly sampled psychology studies published in top journals have failed a reproducibility test (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:
 Count Iblis (talk) 19:14, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 26

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August 26, 2015 (2015-08-26) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

[Posted] RD: Amelia Boynton Robinson

[edit]
Article: Amelia Boynton Robinson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian The Birmingham News ABC News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well-known and much-awarded civil rights activist who marched with Martin Luther King Jr., John Lewis, and others at Selma. Article is fairly comprehensive. Kudzu1 (talk) 22:24, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Murder of Alison Parker and Adam Ward

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Closing per WP:SNOW. A tragedy, but just one of many random murders that happen daily, even if it did happen on TV. Smurrayinchester 17:24, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Murder of Alison Parker and Adam Ward (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Two American television reporters are shot dead during a live broadcast in Moneta, Virginia. (Post)
Credits:
 EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 15:58, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, tragic story and worldwide coverage. The broadcasting of the murders live as well as the social media video make this one unique. But cue the "another shooting in the US", "journalists get killed all the time", etc. comments. Darth nihilus 69 (talk) 16:08, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Ignoring that this was "on air", the situation appears to be a disgruntled co-worker choosing to shoot other co-workers in revenge. If we didn't have the fact it was done on air, ITN would write this off as another unfortunate American gun incident and not significant enough to post. The fact that this happened on air is making it a spectacle, but does not change the core story, that a disgruntled employee turned to kill other employees. For the same reason we did not post the France train attack, we should not be posting this as to avoid giving into the spectacle. --MASEM (t) 16:12, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Whilst tragic, this would have only been minor news outside the local area had it not been recorded on film. Black Kite (talk) 16:14, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Tragic? Yes. Notable? Yes. Long lasting impact? No. People are murdered everyday. JOURNALISTS are murdered ALL the time and no one gives a damn about 95% of them.--86.135.159.178 (talk) 16:15, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It has some shock factor, and the unusual circumstances may make it notable enough for a Wikipedia article, but the event is still a local, domestic crime. We don't typically post murders of otherwise non-notable individuals unless it's mass casualty. Mamyles (talk) 16:19, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ambivalent I just saw the video and it is horrible. Sort of like bodycams on cops, sometimes video can do more than describing the event, and the fact that its on camera both by the station and by the shooter elevates this in a way that everyone above (save the first commenter) seems to be disregarding outright. That said, this is 'Murica, and I don't expect any changes in gun laws from this, since we couldn't when someone massacred an elementary school. So I don't know what to do with this, or anything related to guns any more. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:32, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Not terrorism, and if it wasn't on TV I don't even think we would be talking about it. 331dot (talk) 16:33, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose A murder doesn't become that much more notable just because it is live on TV. There must be more contributing factors. --Njardarlogar (talk) 16:51, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pile-on oppose. The idea that dying on TV somehow makes a death more important is ethically repellent. ‑ iridescent 17:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 25

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August 25, 2015 (2015-08-25) (Tuesday)
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[Closed] RD: Francis Sejersted

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No consensus to post. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:53, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Francis Sejersted (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Los Angeles Times The Local
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former chairman of the committee that awards the Nobel Peace Prize, best known for awarding Nelson Mandela (and F.W. de Klerk). Death has received international attention. Kudzu1 (talk) 03:20, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
He has been nominated because of his presence on the committee, not because of his field. If we are regarding that as an indication of his importance and not his importance itself, I'm still not clear on how the criteria are met. 331dot (talk) 14:20, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Right, because they just grab any-old-Joe off the street and say "Here, you get to be chairmen of the Nobel Peace Prize committee"... --Jayron32 14:40, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 24

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August 24, 2015 (2015-08-24) (Monday)
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Sports

[Closed] RD: Justin Wilson

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No consensus to post as RD or blurb. SpencerT♦C 05:14, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Justin Wilson (racing driver) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 Palmtree5551 (talk) 01:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Regarded as a "highly respected" driver in the series. He's also one of the more popular drivers as well. Certainly a tragic and sad moment here. May he Rest In Peace. Aerospeed (Talk) 01:44, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose That NBC News source says "highly respected", not "highly regarded". I don't see any evidence that he meets DC#2 for being highly important in his field, and frankly a race car driver dying from injuries sustained while driving a race car isn't anything that shocking. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Corrected, my apologies. Aerospeed (Talk) 01:54, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose RD / Strong Oppose any blurb There is no evidence indicating a level of importance satisfying ITNDC. He was a professional race car driver. One of many. His death is a tragedy but it doesn't warrant attention here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:23, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    His death has already been given attention, VERY PROMINENTLY, by news sources. That you wish those news sources had ignored it is irrelevant. We have a quality article, and his death is being covered a lot. Readers will be looking for it. ITN is not the way in which you get to reshape culture. --Jayron32 10:29, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The inconsistency here is amazing. Jules Bianchi, who had only been on the Formula One circuit for a year and with no wins under his belt, was prominently given a full blurb about his passing, yet Wilson, a 12-year pro who had seven wins in IndyCar and Champ Car, is being opposed for just an RD? --Tocino 03:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You have a fair point. All I can say is I opposed that nomination too and still think it was a lapse in our standards. But making a mistake is a poor argument for repeating it. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:09, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That is inconsistent. I would've opposed Bianchi, though. I looked and saw I didn't comment on it. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:45, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Tocino's argument regarding Bianchi. Wilson was himself a former F1 driver - since that was the obvious bias that led to a nobody like Bianchi getting a full blurb - and unlike Bianchi, Wilson won top level races (in IndyCar), and was a top contender for the CHAMP car titles in the mid 2000s. Resolute 04:01, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb RD – Per Tocino. If you think Wilson was "just some driver", as some who oppose seem to think, then you are proactively ignoring the mountain of sources indicating otherwise. Even before his death, there were tons of messages of concern and well-wishes from many racing communities, not just IndyCar, and ESPN broke coverage to announce both his injury and his death – two things I don't recall happening with Bianchi just last month who got a blurb with overwhelming support. Twirly Pen (Speak up) 04:10, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD - ex-F1 driver, twice a runner-up for Indycar/Champ Car title. Hundreds of drivers race around the world. He may not have won a major championship but he came pretty damn close twice and accomplished more than most other racers do with his success. I understood the Bianchi blurb to be because he was the first death from an F1 racing accident in 20 years. Melicans (talk, contributions) 04:33, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I am sorry but Jules Bianchi, which was a mistake, was not a precedent and did not abrogate the guidelines in WP:ITNDC. None of which does this tragic death come even remotely close to satisfying. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Bianchi was not a mistake. His death was the first directly associated with a Formula 1 race for 20 years. Mjroots (talk) 05:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD per Melicans, twice runner-up in a major motor racing championship. Mjroots (talk) 05:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD Enough has been said. Zwerg Nase (talk) 08:58, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I am not convinced that he was a very significant figure in the field of motor racing. Nor am I persuaded by the comparison with the Bianchi blurb - Formula One is bigger internationally than IndyCar. Neljack (talk) 10:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Former IndyCar and NASCAR champion Tony Stewart put his private jet at the family's disposal before the helicopter even took off from Pocono raceway. He may not have been successful, but to say he wasn't a significant figure in the field of motor racing (less solely just in IndyCar) is simply untrue. As I pointed out earlier, ESPN broke live TV coverage twice; once when he was injured & again when he passed the next day. While I agree that the comparison doesn't matter here, in Bianchi's case, the network only ran an internet story on their much-buried ESPN F1 website and had nothing on TV. Twirly Pen (Speak up) 10:47, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wilson also drove in F1, so I'm confused by the argument. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.95.148.250 (talk) 14:31, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. He was a significant figure in motorsport, with a long career competing at the top level, and his death is very clearly in the news. 7 deaths in indycar (inc predecessors) in 20 years is hardly indicative of a frequent occurrence. Thryduulf (talk) 13:10, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - As per reasons given above. Fgf10 (talk) 16:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the comparison to Bianchi is not entirely fair - he was the first F1 driver to die at a GP since two fatalities in 1994, and thus ended a 20-year streak of no deaths in Formula 1. That's notable because the sport was previously known for being deadly, in the 60s and 70s F1 averaged over one death during a race a year (see List of Formula One fatalities). On the other hand, looking at List of Champ Car fatalities, which includes IndyCar and it's previous versions, shows that before this fatality in 2015 there were deaths during races in 2011, 2006, Oct 1999, Sep 1999, Jul 1996 and May 1996. To me that suggests IndyCar is (at least recently) an inherently more dangerous sport and thus is not directly comparable to a death in Formula 1. 131.251.253.128 (talk) 17:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: I am not convinced that he was at the top of his field. I have never even heard of him and his death isn't highly covered here. He is not at the same level as Bianchi. His death is only tragic which is bad, but is not notable. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support simple. if you posted Bianchi then this should be posted as well. Both non-well-known race car drivers who died and received international press. Period. The amount of opposition is the biggest load of anti-American BS, just as this site often does. The fact that Wilson probably won't even get an RD mention shows English Wikipedia's hypocrisy in what news is posted even more. Darth nihilus 69 (talk) 19:15, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - tragic death (though not unexpected in his risky profession), but not at the top even in the narrowly defined field of auto-racing. ITN is already heavily biased toward sports. -Zanhe (talk) 19:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Zanhe. Were this to go up, it should be as a full blurb. But I don't see it meriting that. Perhaps it's time to consider an "In sports section" below "On this day". I really don't see posting cricket tournaments and sports car crashes with the destruction of antiquities in a major regional war and worldwide market crashes. μηδείς (talk) 21:33, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I am really not seeing this person as a notable or influential member of their field. Challenger l (talk) 16:55, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD - clearly notable enough for inclusion at RD. --BabbaQ (talk) 16:56, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Notable why? The whole point of commenting here is to say why he is notable, not just to assert that he's notable, that's already implied in your support vote. μηδείς (talk) 17:32, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would observe that most of BabbaQ's comments are like this; they don't really help anyone determine consensus; this isn't a vote. 331dot (talk) 17:36, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
331dot if you could let me answer this, it is apparent for anyone with the ability to read an article that his achievements are reason enough for inclusion at RD in my opinion. And I would observe that 331dot always POV push for his opinion at ITN to be followed. As apparent here as well.. geez.. get of the high horse :)--BabbaQ (talk) 17:39, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that is how you see your posts, but that is not apparent by those reading them, nor is that the role of this page; this page is to discuss the merits of the nomination, and simply saying "it's notable" does not contribute to that. It just looks like a vote. This is not 331dot's In The News so I don't get where the "POV push" claim comes from. This isn't mine nor do I want to push my views on anyone. If you wish to further discuss my conduct here, you can find my talk page. 331dot (talk) 17:43, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re-opening nomination - I feel this needs more discussion, even when vote amount is large. The closer said that featuring the "Jules Bianchi" blurb was a mistake, implying COI (no offense). --George Ho (talk) 03:17, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
None taken. I was WP:INVOLVED and viewed the closure as non-controversial since I didn't (and still don't) see any likelihood of gaining consensus. In that circumstance anyone is free to revert a closing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:24, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] Okanogan Complex wildfire

[edit]
Articles: Okanogan Complex fire (talk · history · tag) and 2015 Washington state wildfires (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Okanogan Complex wildfire, one of several wildfires in the U.S. state of Washington, becomes the largest in state history after growing to over 250,000 acres (100,000 ha). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Over 16 large wildfires across the U.S. state of Washington destroy more than 200 homes and burn 920 square miles (2,400 km2), leading to the declaration of a state of emergency by President Barack Obama.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Over 16 large wildfires across the U.S. state of Washington, including the largest in the state's history, destroy more than 200 homes and burn 920 square miles (2,400 km2).
News source(s): NBC, KOMO-TV/AP, The Guardian, LA Times, The Seattle Times
Credits:

 SounderBruce 20:32, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support While it is wildfire season and an issue for many states, this is a major one that they have been having difficulties fighting. --MASEM (t) 21:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - per masem--BabbaQ (talk) 21:17, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – This is a big ongoing story in U.S. Pacific NW, where dozens of wildfires are still burning. (See map.) But since loss of life has been comparatively small – compared to disasters/wars elsewhere – I'm frankly not sure it's ITN material. Sca (talk)
(So happens a close relative of mine just returned – safe & sound! – from two weeks of fighting fire in Wash. & Ore.) Sca (talk) 21:32, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • As noted there's a couple of fires in the same area that they are worried are going to merge into this and make the situation that much worse. Yes, last I saw there were 90-some reported wildfires in the western US, and these do happen every year, moreso with drought conditions, but this is a very severe one that is not yet over, with only 10% estimated contained. --MASEM (t) 21:37, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We don't usually post records, especially those that change frequently. It's also a record only in a specific area of the US. If this was nominated for the event itself instead of the record (in which case the blurb should probably be changed), I'm not sure it is important enough to warrant a front page item. The target article is also a stub. Isa (talk) 21:52, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe. Isa (talk) 22:11, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support this alone, full support a blurb that covers more of the state's wildfires. I live in Seattle now, and yesterday the forecast was for "smoke". They were not wrong: smoke from the wildfires affected us some distance from where they are occuring. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's been smoky here for weeks, but today seems to be clearing at last. OTOH, some of those fires could burn for more weeks. Sca (talk) 22:25, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How is this wildfire different from others? It seems that a state of emergency was also declared last year. Isa (talk) 22:41, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
1.3% of the state has burned down. It's no wonder Seattle's weather forecast is "smoke". (Seattle is far from anywhere that isn't like a temperate rainforest and the non-rainforest parts are the opposite direction from where Seattle's prevailing wind comes from. So this isn't common like California). Support alternate. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:56, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The article says 11,000 square miles have burned and they've had to ask the lay public to firefight with the firefighters! There's only 66,500 square miles of land in the state! And some is like a desert! Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:13, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Er, the article says 256,657 acres. If I'm not mistaken, that equates to 400 sq. mi. (640 acres to the square mile.) Washington (state) totals 71,362 sq. mi. Sca (talk) 00:02, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The other article, 2015 Washington state wildfires, says 11,000 square miles in the lead. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:20, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Which makes no sense, since it's a figure for the whole of the United States: The fatalities came as some 29,000 firefighters, including responders from as far away as New Zealand, joined local crews in their struggles against fires that have consumed 11,000 square miles so far. Most of the ravaged land has been in Alaska, but an increase in fires in the Idaho, Oregon, Montana, Washington and California has caused competition for firefighting resources with some requests going unmet.[3]. I've changed the article accordingly. Isa (talk) 00:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Factoids: An area of 11,000 square miles equates approximately to the area of Belgium. Total U.S. area is 3.8 million square miles.
Sca (talk) 14:08, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Only 3.5 million of which is not water. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I came here specifically to oppose this American nomination.--Droneanddrone (talk) 08:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I doubt anyone gives a damn about the opinion of someone's scrutiny-evading sock account. Resolute 14:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support (alt. blurb) – Major disaster for the state of Washington and historic in some regards. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 12:21, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am pretty much inclined to support on the simple basis of how much smoke the jet stream has shoved up into southern Alberta. Calgary feels like Beijing today with all the haze and health-deteriorating effects it is causing. Article needs major improvement before posting, however. Resolute 14:19, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Although I'm a resident of one of the affected states, I remain undecided about this nom. However, please keep in mind that the "disaster" isn't limited to Washington state; it seriously affects Oregon and Idaho as well. (California, from my pt. of view, is a different region and a separate story.) Sca (talk) 14:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The blurbs are about a specific wildfire in the Washington state or the wildfires in that state as a whole. A third blurb could be proposed with the 2015 wildfire season in the United States, but there's no article for this. Isa (talk) 14:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Global stock market selloff

[edit]
Article: 2015 stock market selloff (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Stock markets plummet worldwide, with many indices including the Dow Jones Industrial Average, Shanghai Composite Index and FTSEurofirst 300 Index all recording the biggest falls since the financial crisis of 2007–08. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Stock markets sink worldwide, with many indices recording the biggest falls since the financial crisis of 2007–08.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Stock markets plummet worldwide, led by Chinese markets.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Global stock markets undergo major selloffs, with many indices recording the biggest falls since the financial crisis of 2007–08.
News source(s): Guardian, Reuters, Bloomberg
Credits:

 Smurrayinchester 14:52, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support once merge discussion is addressed and article is expanded. Obviously a significant selloff and part of a chain of events that started earlier this year (and looks likely to continue, and possibly escalate, over the coming weeks). -Kudzu1 (talk) 14:57, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but wait – Huge (and painful!), but we should give NYSE at least half a day's trading before posting. (Maybe a full day; it'll be tough to keep abreast of the action.) Sca (talk) 15:12, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
PS: We might want to say plummet rather than crash, as crash is such a loaded term in context. (Most of the wonks are calling this a correction.) In title of article, suggest crash be changed to selloff. Sca (talk) 15:16, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, leaning oppose. This is being predicated on the result of 4 days of trading, and while numbers are swinging wildly, there's nothing to indicate a crash - as Sca points out, that is a very loaded term and nothing showing the markets having crashed, just corrected at a global scale. Even today, a 1000 pt DJ loss has been made up by half and we're not even though the day (as I write this). --MASEM (t) 15:26, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Changing to Weak support. While I personally think this is just a standard correction, there's enough sources out there that make this news of interest in financial markets with some analysts thinking that while this is not a major situation, it is a test of various nation's economies (like the US's) and a sign of how much of the interconnectiveness of these markets are today. --MASEM (t) 21:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - We'll look like fools if we post this today and the market recovers to pre-selloff levels within the week. Let's wait to see if there's any sign of a long-term trend.--WaltCip (talk) 15:27, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We need to wait for a while, but if mkts continue to tank for several days it'd be highly consequential & not to be ignored. (Longer-term this could end up in ongoing.) Sca (talk) 15:52, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not about the DOW or the S&P 500. It's the global economy. The emerging markets, especially China, are getting creamed and that is inciting panic globally. This really should be moved to ongoing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:21, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Those U.S. market numbers indicate talk of global "free fall" was (or appears to have been) overblown. Plus, NYSE remains the biggest exchange of all. Sca (talk) 22:30, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Once again this is not a one day event. The S&P has gotten the snot pounded out of it in recent days. Take a look at a 30 day chart. And it has been hugely worse in China, the world's second largest economy. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:38, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support major worldwide event. The scale of the crash is tremendous; the market is in correction mode for the first time in years. Support altblurb, with grammatical error corrected: "... recording their biggest falls ..." Banedon (talk) 01:00, 25 August 2015 (UTC) Change to Oppose. The problem is, this kind of news should either be posted quickly or not posted at all. We've gone way too long without posting this; it's simply too late. Banedon (talk) 00:41, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. If futures are correct, DOW, NYSE and S&P will open today by recovering approximately 30% of the recent drop, and other worldwide markets have also recovered some value as of right now. By my cursory reading of the financial press, the terms "correction" and "sell-off" are being used, not "crash". China is a special case, yes, but we can't generalize that across the globe. Being the biggest drop in 7-8 years doesn't make this routine business news any more impactful than being the 7th or 8th largest merger/acquisition in a year.128.214.53.18 (talk) 11:04, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait leaning oppose – per above comments by 128.214.53.18. A quick glance at the going-ons also show that China is really the only major market not in recovery or expected to start recovering today. Best to give this a few more days to see how the markets react to China's actions before giving it the go ahead, in my opinion. If there's a desire to push this soon, I'd suggest tightening the focus to mostly (or only) China. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 12:16, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Even if the move itself is not lasting, the volatility of the world markets IS ITN notable. Nergaal (talk) 21:01, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: The article is much too short, itself not much better than a news blurb. The title is a question, as this should be written in hindsight after we know the hurricane has passed. We might still be in its eye. I could see a title like "Black Monday" if the MSM later uses it. I'd wait a few more days. --Light show (talk) 21:15, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem is article quality. This should obviously be posted in theory, but with editorial flourishes like "nail in the coffin" and very inconsistent and non-comprehensive writing I can't get behind posting it as is. Normally "sofixit", but I am also recovering from a two-day medical procedure and working on a Spanish format keyboard. I suspect not attempting large rewrites comes under either the "no using machinery" or the "no serious legal or business decisions" part of my instructions upon discharge today. μηδείς (talk) 21:28, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, target article is pretty thin. Financial writing is a specialized field. If you watch the wonks, they've got it all in their heads. Tough for a non-pro to cobble together cogently. Sca (talk) 21:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
But a few additions have fleshed out the article a bit. Meanwhile, NY mkts gained in bumpy early trading Wednesday. Sca (talk) 14:51, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have taken note of the gains today, if briefly, both in the article and lede. I appreciate your improvements Sca, as material and moral support. As you note, the subject is complex. Jusdafax 01:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article is still written from an entirely Dow Jones-centric point of view, with the world-wide crash being treated as a factor in the US stock markets. The lead takes for granted the notion that what matters is the US stock market, while the article title makes no such narrow identification of events. There were even comments from two US presidential candidates in the "reaction" section, which I have removed as undue. μηδείς (talk) 17:30, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment suggest that should this global market uncertainty continue that we add it to Ongoing. Fluctuations by China are causing ripples worldwide, but right now, it seems that the financial ruin is remaining localised. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:58, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support "global market uncertainty" ongoing as of proper scope and subject. μηδείς (talk) 22:52, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I have restored the deleted "Reactions" section, and have invited participation to expand it for better balance. That topic is more properly discussed on the article talk page. The elephant in the room, so to speak, is the obvious fact that a longtime ITN participant has been working for days to build this article up from a condition charitably described as dubious. An important fact: I have neither nominated it here nor taken a stand on posting it, and I invite collegial participation. I submit that if you feel the article has deficiency, that you help build it up. Again, the place to discuss the details is the article talk page, where the wider community can assist. Rightly or wrongly, I am left with the distinct impression that factors I do not chose to speculate on may be motivating some ITN editor behavior, which arguably should be addressed in a different venue. But, let's work together. Again, I sincerely ask for actual assistance in building the article, not disruptive and dismissive POV pontification and wholesale deletion of sourced sections, Jusdafax 20:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – This is a global story, but in an effort to appear non-U.S.-centric we certainly can't ignore the biggest, most influential market of all. The Dow on Wednesday surged almost 4% while the Nasdaq shot up 4.2%, indicating the dreaded selloff may not be so drastic as doomsayers forecast. Implications for world markets in the near term. Sca (talk) 21:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until the article is merged with the Chinese devaluation and market crash and made suitably world-focused given its name of 2015 stock market crash. I am not opposing this on political grounds or due to the fact that after an 11% drop in three trading days there was a 4% rebound. Markets dropped world-wide, an article about the crash from the US point of view is like having an article on a comet striking the Pacific from the US view. μηδείς (talk) 21:41, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have reverted your deletion of the section a second time, and again asked for your talk page participation. Given your !vote here, it appears to me you are about to cross a bright line. I call on an uninvolved admin to take note of the issues here, and to take all action needful. Jusdafax 22:17, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On Thursday Shanghai closed up 5.3%, Hang Seng up 3.6%. In Europe, markets "climbed Thursday, tracking gains in Asian and U.S. markets," said Market Watch.
Perhaps we should revise our blurb to something like:
Global stock markets suffer major selloffs, followed by days of volatility, then apparent recovery in some markets. (Altblurb 4.)
Sca (talk) 12:35, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That is the stock market in a nutshell. Volatility. It's pointless to speculate over short-term events.--WaltCip (talk) 13:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Saying that the stock market crashed last week isn't speculating, it's reporting news. "The markets are volatile" - which implies that the market crashed one day, surged the next, etc - is also news material. Just take a look around CNN or Bloomberg (for example). Banedon (talk) 00:41, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The markets have been volatile for the past five years. That the volatility just peaked this week really does not mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention, this was not a stock market crash. A crash is considered a rapid and sustained loss of volume which results in a recession or depression. That has not occurred. The only economic activity that might qualify as a crash is the drop in Chinese equities by 35%, and that story has already been posted this year. In any case, there is nothing noteworthy here to post. "The markets go down, then they go up, then they go down again, then they go up again" does not make for a particularly noteworthy ITN blurb.--WaltCip (talk) 11:09, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"The markets have been volatile for the past five years" - not true. Take a look at the stock chart for VIX, which is the volatility index. There is a definite spike in the past month. Last time the markets were this volatile was in late 2011. Otherwise, major indices worldwide recorded their greatest falls since 2008. Whether or not to call that a crash is a matter of semantics and opinion. Banedon (talk) 13:14, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Altblurb 4 - By far the best choice. The market turmoil with wide swings not seen in years has been a real, global event, and may not be over yet. It has been in the headlines for days now, around the world. The target article, which I have given a bit of my time to, can stand further additions and balance, but I can certainly vouch for the sourcing. Jusdafax 14:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose A market "correction" is entirely normal, and the extent of this global fall (~10%) can be expected every 1-2 years. This is the first major correction in five years, but that only makes it less surprising. If something about this is posted, I would prefer it to focus on the Chinese market crash, which is an eye-popping 35%. The 2nd biggest investment market crashing is much bigger news than a global correction. Mamyles (talk) 14:21, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
U.S. markets gained in early trading Thurs. Sca (talk) 14:34, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Mamyles, we posted that article July 14. Jusdafax 16:13, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
European mkts closed 3-plus percent higher. Sca (talk) 17:15, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
CNBC is stating that the US stock indices have closed out of correction.--WaltCip (talk) 20:05, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On Friday Shanghai gained 4.8%, while the Hang Seng slid 1%. In Japan the Nikkei 225 rose 3%. European markets were generally flat, although the FTSE managed a 0.9% gain. U.S. markets also were flat. Sca (talk) 20:34, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is no longer "in the news", especially since equity markets have rallied strongly in recent days. Also for an article that purports to be about a global phenomenon, it focuses too heavily on US stockmarkets. Also 2 of the 3 comments in the "reactions" section are from a US businessman and a US state politician, which again do not reflect a worldwide view of the topic. Stockst (talk) 14:20, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd agree that the story is cold. If the turmoil returns we can take another look. Frankly, I was surprised at the near-complete lack of assistance I got in working on the article. So be it, suggest we close. Jusdafax 05:28, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kabaddi champions

[edit]
Article: 2015 Pro Kabaddi League season (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ U Mumba win the 2015 Pro Kabaddi League defeating Bengaluru Bulls in the final. (Post)
News source(s): [4]
Credits:
  • Nominated by [[User:120.62.27.66 (talk) 11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)|120.62.27.66 (talk) 11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)]] ([[User talk:120.62.27.66 (talk) 11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)|talk]] · [{{fullurl:User talk:120.62.27.66 (talk) 11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)|action=edit&preload=Template:ITN_candidate/preload_credit&preloadtitle=ITN+recognition+for+%5B%5B2015+Pro+Kabaddi+League+season%5D%5D&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=2015+Pro+Kabaddi+League+season&preloadparams%5b%5d=nominated}} give credit])[reply]

Nominator's comments: Minority sport it is, but there are many other sports on ITNR that are smaller. In a country of 1 billion+ that's no mean feat.
Plus Mumbai winning T20 (posted on ITN a few months ago), semi-finalists in cricket (which ought to be ITNR along with the Welsh/english domestic cricket) and kabaddi only leaves hockey to conquer (arguably the Asian tennis tournament can count too). That is like a city winning \all the big 4 in the USA (of which all 4 are ITNR) 120.62.27.66 (talk) 11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 23

[edit]
August 23, 2015 (2015-08-23) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations
  • Britain and Iran reopen embassies in each others' capitals that had been closed after Iranian protesters stormed the British embassy on November 29, 2011. (Reuters)
  • North and South Korea resume talks in the border village of Panmunjon in efforts to defuse recent tensions. (AP)

Law and crime

RD: Paul Royle

[edit]
Article: Paul Royle (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News BBC New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Being "one of the last survivors of World War Two's most famous prison break" (as per the BBC) seems notable. This escape was also made into a Hollywood movie, The Great Escape (film). Everymorning (talk) 02:27, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - This is a footnote. If he was truly that notable, he would have had an article long before now. I don't see what makes him more significant than any of the other survivors, aside from living longer than most. Since there is still one remaining survivor, it seems especially difficult to claim longevity as a point of notability here. The (now) sole remaining survivor, Dick Churchill, still doesn't have an article. --Bongwarrior (talk) 02:53, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've struck an incorrect portion of my oppose. I didn't notice that the article was created in August 2014, not just recently. My mistake. --Bongwarrior (talk) 02:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Withdrawn] RD: Augusta Chiwy

[edit]

As advised, withdrew nomination. But if you want to support, feel free to revert closure. --George Ho (talk) 22:15, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: Augusta Chiwy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY TimesRadio Television Belge Francophone
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: A nurse among thousands of nurses volunteered to nurse many American soldiers back to health, according to news articles. --George Ho (talk) 11:06, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • To clarify the rationale, Chiwy was knighted by Belgium in 2011 in recognition for her volunteer work nursing allied forces during the Battle of the Bulge in WWII, and was briefly portrayed in a fictionalized manner in Band of Brothers. μηδείς (talk) 17:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Hi George. It sounds like you are no longer all that enthusiastic about the nomination. You can always withdraw it and do an early close as long as there aren't a bunch of support votes. FTR if the nomination remains open I will likely oppose. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:46, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] Temple of Baalshamin destroyed by ISIL

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Palmyra offensive (July – August 2015) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Syrian government officials report that The Islamic State destroys the Temple of Baalshamin (pictured) in the ancient city of Palmyra. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The ancient Temple of Baalshamin in Palmyra (pictured) is destroyed by the Islamic State.
News source(s): NY Times, BBC etc. It's pretty much all over.
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: The latest cultural crime against humanity by these savages misunderstood people lacking jobs and educational opportunities. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:21, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If you think that is a better target article then feel free to amend the blurb. I also like the idea of a photo for the blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:33, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno if it is better as the target link (that's the war, that's the right one for the target). --MASEM (t) 02:42, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The nominator would be well-advised to use the nomination statement to explain the significance of the event rather than to engage in provocative political commentary. Neljack (talk) 05:03, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Topic links back to a very good article about an esoteric subject that readers would not otherwise encounter on a typical news website. I agree with MASEM regarding the linked article as well. I also added an altblurb that's a little more concise and incorporates the new blurb.128.214.53.18 (talk) 05:20, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A news reporting the destruction of a UNESCO World Heritage Site should go on the main page immediately. Also, proposed blurbs should be amended to include the uncovered truth that the USA admittedly support ISIS in what they do. A blurb saying Syrian government officials report that the Islamic State supported by the United States of America have destroyed the Temple of Baalshamin in the ancient city of Palmyra. is more comprehensive to me.--Droneanddrone (talk) 06:51, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Something of cultural significance has been irreversibly destroyed. Prefer alt blurb, since it doesn't mention "Syrian authorities". Banedon (talk) 07:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb: You would think that after reaching comic-book-villain levels of odiousness, these guys would be content, but they just keep managing to outdo themselves. I don't think mentioning the Syrian government (which is not a reliable source) is necessary in the blurb and it should be avoiding. Whatever nonsense the drive-by was spewing up there about the United States supporting ISIL (by repeatedly bombing them and training/arming their enemies?) can be safely disregarded as well, but that should go without saying. -Kudzu1 (talk) 07:37, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You are one dumb sheep!

Changed to a better target article with no prejudice. It needs more of an update though.120.62.27.66 (talk) 11:33, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Mariem Hassan

[edit]
Article: Mariem Hassan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Pais Sahara Press Service
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Sahrawi musician of some repute. Death mostly receiving coverage in Spanish-language media, but her English-language Wikipedia article is actually pretty darn good, with just a bit of cleanup needed. Certainly at the top of her field as a Western Sahara music artist, and an "interesting" death in that she passed away while residing in a refugee camp. Kudzu1 (talk) 04:37, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 22

[edit]
August 22, 2015 (2015-08-22) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Closed] RD: Ieng Thirith

[edit]

Closed as stale. Someone else died most recently. --George Ho (talk) 20:05, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: Ieng Thirith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, ABC Australia, The Independent
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Ieng Thirith, the former ‘first lady’ of Cambodia’s Khmer Rouge regime, has died aged 83... Jenda H. (talk) 17:36, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I don't see how she meets the RD criteria. The page states she was influential to the Khmer Rouge but I'm not clear on how or if it is significant. 331dot (talk) 19:37, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD The article could be a bit more clear in its specifics, but it does indicate that there was strong evidence implicating her in genocide and crimes against humanity. I also note a strong bias in the media and elsewhere against reporting/discussing atrocities committed by the far left. It's a systemic bias that is by default reflected here on ITN. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:59, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That might make her meet DC1 (significant impact) so I will strike my oppose; but are we saying she is notable because she was probably a war criminal, since she was never convicted? Article would need some work, too. 331dot (talk) 19:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD A top figure in one of the most gruesome, anti-human regimes that this planet has ever had the misfortune to nourish. She was not convicted, but that was due to dementia hampering the trial (as a Brit I can say there is a similar modern case where that is also the problem...) '''tAD''' (talk) 20:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Article is entirely unclear about her role in the Khmer Rouge regime. I'd be apt to reconsider my !vote if the article is improved to include more information about her life during the "Democratic Kampuchea" years. -Kudzu1 (talk) 21:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Marriage to someone infamous does not guarantee your infamy or notability - she seems to have been a politician during the Khmer Rouge, but not a prominent one, judging from the article. Challenger l (talk) 00:47, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
She was the most influential woman in Cambodia and a government minister in her own right. -Zanhe (talk) 19:43, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Posted] Shoreham Airport disaster

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Shoreham Airport disaster (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least seven people are killed when a Hawker Hunter crashes at Shoreham Airport in West Sussex during an airshow. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least seven people are killed when a Hawker Hunter (pictured) crashes onto the A27 near Shoreham Airport in West Sussex.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Multiple fatalities at an airshow is uncommon, particularly with an aircraft hitting a major road. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:03, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's thinking globally. Sca (talk) 13:51, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Arthur Morris

[edit]
Article: Arthur Morris (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News Sydney Morning Herald
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: "Great player just died" --Quoth the IP that added this header without a template. I suspect that an RD is more appropriate than blurb here as he was 93. The article is a FA and he was clearly very important in his field, although I am not a cricket aficionado. Everymorning (talk) 02:16, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 21

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August 21, 2015 (2015-08-21) (Friday)
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[Closed] 2015 Arras attack

[edit]
Although compelling arguments made by both sides, there is ultimately no consensus to post. SpencerT♦C 21:42, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2015 Thalys attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Gunman opens fire on an Amersterdam-Paris international trian near Arras, France. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Three Americans and one Briton subdue the Moroccan perpetrator of the attack in the train to Paris, ending with five injuries, including the perpetrator himself.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Four people subdue the perpetrator of the attack in the train to Paris, ending with five injuries, including the perpetrator himself.
Alternative blurb III: ​ An attack in the train to Paris ends with five injuries when four people subdue the perpetrator, who becomes one of injured.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: There were no deaths, which will make some people oppose this, but if it wasn't for the actions of three US Marines who happened to be on the train (and on the right place on the train too) this would likely have been a very deadly attack. It has been branded a terrorist attack and the suspect was known to the French authorities. If someone else had nominated this I would probably only weakly support it, but there haven't been a lot of nominations of late so it's worth testing the waters. Thryduulf (talk) 00:59, 22 August 2015 (UTC) Thryduulf (talk) 00:59, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nomination. There were no deaths. I agree that the news cycle is a bit slow and might be willing to give a weak nod to some stories that in a busier cycle probably would not make the cut, but I am sick of the endless train of terror attacks on ITN. On a side note; Bravo Zulu to the Marines. Semper Fi! Ad Orientem (talk) 01:25, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The article can't be linked on the Front Page while it is tagged for AfD. Since that is likely to take a week or so this nomination is effectively dead. If it survives AfD I would suggest a DYK nomination. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:51, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The AfD was closed as a speedy keep. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:18, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Not a significant death toll. -Kudzu1 (talk) 06:12, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a lack of death toll is not necessarily equating to a lack of notability. This is ITN/C, the event is in the news, and is the top story for many news outlets. Article is being bashed into shape, sourcing is good. Mjroots (talk) 08:37, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - sourcing is good. as mjroots states death toll is not necessarily equal to lack of notability.--BabbaQ (talk) 08:39, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Fortunately not too serious an incident. However, I do not believe that it should be possible to sink an ITN nomination by tagging it for AfD. It's quite reasonable for us to debate this nomination, and it's no reflection on the good faith of either nominator that the other's proposal exists. AlexTiefling (talk) 08:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • The article was nominated for deletion before it was nominated for ITN. No harm, no foul. Mjroots (talk) 10:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • I fundamentally disagree that this was not a serious incident - just because nobody was killed does not reduce the significance or seriousness of a heavily armed man, known to authorities, attempting to murder a large number of people on a train as an act of terrorism. If it had been foiled in advance by security services you would have a point, but the only reasons nobody was killed was through sheer luck. I don't really know how it could be more serious actually. Thryduulf (talk) 13:30, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is the top international news story (whereas Arthur Morris is nowhere). Andrew D. (talk) 13:45, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Interesting episode but not a major event. Sca (talk) 13:51, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose mildly interesting but nothing more. Another good candidate for DYK. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:58, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I thought this was likely yet another boring terrorist attack (another bombing in an insurrection/war zone like Iraq or Syria or something) but finally read about it and this one actually is interesting. And how often do AK-47s shoot people in the neck on high speed trains in such a civilized country? So what if it's a slow news period, people can tell by reading the headlines and will forgive reality for being so boring (semi-snarky on the word boring). It's better than having 2 week old news at the bottom (as has happened before). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:32, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note The AfD was closed as a snow keep. Thus there is no barrier to the article appearing on ITN, subject to consensus. Mjroots (talk) 15:42, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • <Oppose - The article's in good condition, and the incident is notable. However, this is totally overemphasized, especially in Western media. We must avoid repeating ITN's overemphasis on something minor and less significant, even if terrifying, as we did to the 2014 Sydney hostage crisis. George Ho (talk) 15:52, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I was able to add ALTs to the no-longer-ongoing event. Striking vote in favor of my own proposed blurbs. (Per Rambling Man) George Ho (talk) 19:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nah, still just a footnote. (Blokes? Three of them were Yanks.) Sca (talk) 20:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Did we post the underwear bomber, who didn't manage to shoot or blow up anyone? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:50, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Don't forget his avatar, the shoe bomber. Sca (talk) 21:04, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know, did we? And if we did, what difference does that make? Prior performance is no guide to the future. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:53, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We did; I checked the archives. As for precedent, actually there must be a failed ITN nomination similar to it. George Ho (talk) 21:03, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I guess it was because if he'd succeeded he'd have killed 290 people? I'm not sure. The point is that such clumsy and indolent attempts at terrorism shouldn't be even really acknowledged. Move on folks, this is small fry. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:07, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, this is a relatively minor event that is getting a lot of attention, mostly for emotional reasons. It's long term significance is likely to be trivial at most. I stand by my oppose !vote. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
FUD? (FUD doesn't seem to explain this usage.) And do you by chance mean if it happened in a non-Western country? Sca (talk) 14:47, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Fear, uncertainty and doubt. And yes, meant that way. --MASEM (t) 14:53, 23 August 2015 (UTC) [reply]
Oh, I get it now – a story based on emotion. Doh. Sca (talk) 15:03, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Those involve certainly put and fear, uncertainty and doubt aside and did what had to be done! Mjroots (talk) 15:24, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes they did. It's primarily a human-interest story, though. Sca (talk) 16:11, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment agree with Sca. This is a sexy tabloid story with no real eventuality. Some people acted to save themselves and others, and that was brave and honourable and all that, but nothing beyond that actually happened. If this has a lasting impact on the way people travel on trains in France, we could reconsider. There are millions of railway stations in the world, most of which you could step into with a bag bristling with AKs etc. Nothing more to say here. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:35, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Word that the four are to be awarded the Legion d'Honneur is a nice feel-good touch but doesn't really change anything, either. Sca (talk) 21:23, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Tell that to the survivors. And you have know way to know in general that it doesn't change anything. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't change the facts of what happened. Sca (talk) 23:12, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Which is that a guy was prevented from mass murder. Happens every day, right? How sad I feel for you, that no one was killed. But take heart. There will be another deadly terrorist attack soon, somewhere. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:17, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think if you believe your own security forces then yes, attacks are prevented every day, just behind the scenes. This is a fine DYK opportunity, but the clock is ticking. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:08, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Besides, the wannabe gunman was "just hungry." Sca (talk) 23:18, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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August 20

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August 20, 2015 (2015-08-20) (Thursday)
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[Closed] Alexis Tsipras resigning

[edit]
No consensus, it's the election that counts. Stephen 00:33, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Alexis Tsipras (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Prime Minister of Greece Alexis Tsipras announces that he will submit his resignation to the president of Greece, Prokopis Pavlopoulos, and calls an early election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Amid the European debt crisis, Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has submitted his resignation.
News source(s): BBC New York Times The Guardian
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The resignation of a head of state seems like a very big deal, and the BBC is treating it that way--despite the fact that I live in the US, when I go to the BBC News's homepage this is the main story. Sorry for my abysmal lack of understanding of the organization of Greece's government. Everymorning (talk) 19:23, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] RD: Egon Bahr

[edit]
no suppurt after day and a half μηδείς (talk) 21:52, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Egon Bahr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tagesschau, Yahoo
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Architect of Willy Brandt's groundbreaking Ostpolitik. Zwerg Nase (talk) 12:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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August 19

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August 19, 2015 (2015-08-19) (Wednesday)
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RD: Doudou N'Diaye Rose

[edit]
Article: Doudou N'Diaye Rose (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde, Jeune Afrique, France24, RFI.
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 —Brigade Piron (talk) 23:11, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Laibach plays in North Korea

[edit]
Since this is not getting support, I'll consider writing something for DYK. A separate article will probably be a better choice. Closing this one then. --Tone 21:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Laibach (band) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Slovenian group Laibach plays at a concert in North Korea, the first Western band to do so. (Post)
News source(s): BBC DW
Credits:
 Tone 07:57, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So, this is an unusual nomination, intended to bring some diversity to the recently disaster-filled ITN. Nevertheless, we did post something similar a couple of years ago, I believe it was the Metropolitan opera orchestra playing in Pyongyang, but this is the first time that a Western rock group held a concert there. Which is especially interesting given the nature of the band itself. Covered widely in media in July when this was announced as well. The update is thin at the moment but I'm planning to work on it when I get some feedback. --Tone 07:57, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, yes, that news came shortly after. If this escalates, it has a higher ITN priority, definitely. Still, I'd like to see some more feedback. --Tone 12:18, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Eston Kohver

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This is a good faith nomination, the political issue is the issue. The problem is that this is not yet become a dispute on the level we would cover. If it is formally brought before NATO or declared an act of war by Estonia it can be reposted. μηδείς (talk) 00:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Eston Kohver (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Allegedly abducted Estonian Internal Security Service officer Eston Kohver is sentenced to 15 years in prison in Russia for spying. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Russia entered a neighboring country and kidnapped an officer, then prosecuted him as a spy, is a serious breach of international peace. Russia's claims of course should have very little weight - the Russian border troops agreed with the Estonian interpretation, and Russia has shown that they are willing to serially lie about Ukraine without shame. Thue (talk) 15:50, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I stand by my assessment. Look around at what other countries do to their neighbors at various times, some of which is much worse and 99% of which we don't post. This is borderline trivial and the nominating statement sounds like an anti-Russian rant. This is not the place for that. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:33, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is big politics between nation-states. I do think that there is a clear right and wrong in this case, but that does not stop it from being real important news. Thue (talk) 18:27, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • We don't post saber-rattling from North Korea every time they threaten to nuke Seoul and the USA off the face of the earth, because it happens with such frequency as to be considered a tacit part of their day-to-day operations. Similarly, Russia engaging in this sort of political posturing is not newsworthy for ITN.--WaltCip (talk) 18:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I agree with the sentiment that Russian political skirmishes are quite frequent and not generally significant enough to post to ITN. When I initially read this nomination I thought it was about an Estonian government minister. I misread - he's an intelligence officer, and the article possibly falls foul of WP:BLP1E. "Allegedly abducted" is non-neutral for the blurb and should be omitted. The rest of the nom is unashamedly partisan (that the news reports are more tempered is saying something), which is off-putting if this is a serious ITN candidate. Fuebaey (talk) 20:53, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per the reasons stated; this seems a relatively minor international dispute. Estonia (and by extension NATO) is not going to go to war over this. 331dot (talk) 21:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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August 18

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August 18, 2015 (2015-08-18) (Tuesday)
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[Closed] RD: Abu Muslim al-Turkmani

[edit]
No consensus. Stephen 00:32, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Abu Muslim al-Turkmani (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India Wall Street Journal
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Being the "no. 2 figure in ISIS" [5] seems to indicate being important in the field of terrorism. Everymorning (talk) 14:47, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Ashley Madison data breach

[edit]
No consensus. There are a lot of !votes and it looks to be split pretty evenly with cogent arguments on both sides. It seems very unlikely we are going to come to an agreement on this one. -Ad Orientem (talk) 06:39, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Articles: Ashley Madison (talk · history · tag) and Ashley Madison data breach (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hackers release the personal information of more than 30 million users of the dating and infidelity website Ashley Madison in one of the largest data breaches of its kind. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hackers of the Ashley Madison dating website cause a massive data breach of over 30 million users' information.
News source(s): Wired Reuters PC Mag
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Major news throughout North America, where the site mainly operated. In addition to the tawdry nature of a story involving a website where people go to cheat on their spouses, this is being viewed as a watershed moment for online privacy concerns and the "hacktivist" movement: [7] [8] [9] Kudzu1 (talk) 15:40, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(Other than majorly embarrassing, I mean.) Sca (talk) 20:27, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Haha, 1/6th of this continent's married people are on this adultery site alone. Don't euphemize, it's not a dating and infidelity website, it's a site for finding an adulterer you don't know without going out alone during bar hours to make it less obvious. If I recall it even says that unmarrieds are less likely to get contacted cause they want someone who's taking as much risk as they are. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:32, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Undecided this is a major breach of information that highlights the need for improved data security. I just don't know if this story reaches the ITN level though, since a lot of people will dismiss it because the victims of this hack "had it coming" or whatever. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:20, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Surely there were other major cybersecurity breaches in the past that were more deserving of posting than this particular story?--WaltCip (talk) 17:51, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's a privacy breach, unfortunately, but as only the 4 last digits of CCs used were stored and no SS #s , it is far less troublesome than other data breeches. As a private non-financial company, this is just something that is a bad business practice but not the issue that if a bank or CC company or gov't server got hacked. --MASEM (t) 20:12, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • To add a few points: I consider myself very net-centric and while I do not use any of these dating/matchmaking sites I'm aware of the major ones, and I (and many other similar savvy people that I've read on this) never heard of this site until this breach. A site that claims to have >30 M users (a non-trivial fraction of people in NA) without any larger known presence seems very odd, albeit their business approach would beg for discrete coverage. I also think that this is on the front pages of newssites not because it being a privacy breach but because it is a breach of data about potentially well-known/famous/respect people that may possibly trying to engage in infidelity, which I would put at the same level of news fascination as the nude photos from the Apple cloud leak or the Sony Pictures hack, which starts to get into the scandalous nature of the situation ("Hey, well-known person John Q Smith has an account, he must be cheating on his wife!") Again, I stress that we're not talking about a major financial institution or the leak of any usable financial data, which is what can be more disastrous. --MASEM (t) 16:02, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
1. It's an illicit site. Not cannabis or murdering illicit but people aren't going to talk about it as much as something that's socially acceptable (I don't know what Socal or Las Vegas is like but in the rest of the US adultery is not as accepted as casual sex or cannabis or killing fetuses or gay marriage or something like that). It's not like they advertise (much?). I'm not sure if I've ever seen an Internet ad that's not while, uh, watching pornography (and maybe not even on porn sites). They tried the #1 US sports league ads and Toronto streetcar ads and making a Singapore site and they were all flatly denied (they then offered to subsidize the Toronto transit fare and were denied again).
2. It apparently costs money to delete profiles but not to "hide" them. If someone found a good mistress and doesn't use the site again cause they charge by the minute (literally, for chat) then their name and fetishises and stuff is still leaked even though they only used the site for a month or three many years ago (it's a turn of the century website). This is unlike dating sites where people get new girlfriends every few months or years and some are completely free so they're used a lot more per million accounts.
3. I forgot if you're from the Old World or not but the UK has its own adultery site. Why would they use ours? It's not surprising to have not heard of it if you're not in the US or Canada (and maybe if you are).
4. In the US there is almost no credit card risk if you report the loss promptly. Also, the gov't lets you get a new SSN if there's evidence of it being used in fraud. While it might cause anxiety having to wait up to the rest of your life to see if you'll get identity theived or not at least you can get a new one as soon as that happens. (This is because the government was stupid and only put 9 digits so there's only a billion of them) If your data was leaked here however you could lose an election, lose your job, lose your spouse, lose your kids or even be forced out of office (or maybe not, as Clinton has shown). This leak approaches 10 million large pages so people are combing the data for high-profile names as we speak. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:34, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Du sollst dich schämen. Sca (talk) 01:55, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Yes, it's news. But it's cheap tabloid news and we have consistently stayed away from that at ITN. This belongs on page six, not here-Ad Orientem (talk) 03:54, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I disagree that this is nothing more than cheap tabloid news. Yes, it's a morally unsavory website and many people would rather laughingly circlejerk about how these cheaters "had it coming" than treat it as a serious newsworthy societal event, and that's okay, I understand that. But the fact of the matter is that this is still a major and significant privacy breach that's getting a significant amount of serious news coverage from major sources. I'm not sure how anyone can argue that it's not really a big deal because *arbitrarily selected piece of information* wasn't revealed. Swarm ♠ 04:08, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment needs expansion on the analysis ('123456' was most popular password) and ethics of the release - the names of fuckwits will be on the internet for many years to come. Some of these people were in Middle Eastern countries where adultery is punishable by death. -- Callinus (talk) 08:27, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support posting, but please reword blurb. "Infidelity website" sounds very strange and probably isn't the most neutral phrasing we could use. - OldManNeptune ⚓ 10:34, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well it's certainly not neutral to call it a dating website. It says "Life is short. Have an affair!®" right in the logo! And the "O" of ASHLEY MADISON® in the logo is replaced with a wedding ring. I wouldn't call it an affair site because singles can have love affairs. So "adultery site". Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:10, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • I was thinking more along the lines of simply calling it an adult site. The exact nature of, much less value judgements on, the content of adult sites goes beyond our scope in all directions. - OldManNeptune ⚓ 01:29, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this isn't the kind of "news" Wikipedia should be posting. It's better suited for DYK, in my opinion. 1.39.62.147 (talk) 11:08, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • After mucho consideration, I support - on two fronts. One, this is technology news which we rarely post on ITN, as this is a hacking of rather grand scale. Two, this is social news, in that it has the potential for the uprooting of many human relationships. To my knowledge, we haven't really posted anything social news related on ITN.--WaltCip (talk) 11:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - Major data breach, widely reported. Just because people want to take the moral high ground, doesn't mean we shouldn't post it. Fgf10 (talk) 11:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Bleve that would be more like 1/20th. Officially, pop. of N. Am. was 565.3 M in 2013 – about half in U.S. & Canada. (Reportedly, it's 1/11th or 1/12th of U.S. + Canada pop.) Sca (talk) 14:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes North America excludes Latin America. I guess that'd not qualify as a continent then, except geopolitically. Presumably 1/11th or 1/12th accounts for some users not being in Canada (like the site) or the US. Only 3/4ths or so are over 18 so that's a large segment of the population that's affected. It looks like their policy of charging money just to delete a profile but not to "hide" it has come back to bite them. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:41, 20 August 2015 (UTC) [reply]
If Barrack Obama was on the list my answer would be no. ITN is not a gossip column. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The executive director of the Louisiana Republican Party (a state 14th out of 51 in Romney votes (57.9%)) spent $175.98 on the site. He admits it but claims that he was only there for "opposition research". Business Insider. That's all we have so far. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:13, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted to RD]: Khaled al-Asaad

[edit]
Article: Khaled al-Asaad (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Los Angeles Times BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Described by the Los Angeles Times as "a world-renowned scholar of antiquities" and by NBC as "one of Syria's most prominent antiquities scholars". [15] Seems to have been pretty important in his field. Everymorning (talk) 13:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose on article quality: Good to see an article has been created for him, but it's the stubbiest of stubs. No way we can post this without substantial article expansion. -Kudzu1 (talk) 15:25, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • No doubt that the article is much improved. However, I reluctantly remain opposed while the "death" section is longer than his entire biography. Are there sources, especially those predating his death, in any language that could be used to expand on his life and work? Pardon the crass comparison of human to animal, but this feels a bit like the case of Cecil the lion who became famous in death though he was rather little-known in life. -Kudzu1 (talk) 19:59, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Neon gas in the lunar atmosphere

[edit]
no consensus to post μηδείς (talk) 16:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Atmosphere of the Moon (talk · history · tag) and LADEE (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ NASA spacecraft LADEE confirms the existence of neon gas in the atmosphere of the Moon. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Analysis of data recorded by the NASA spacecraft LADEE confirms the existence of neon gas in the atmosphere of the Moon.
News source(s): Daily Mail UK NDTV
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Important finding. 117.192.163.35 (talk) 15:39, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Who has said they are? Most business related nominations involve the reporting of the transaction announcement, not simply the press release. 331dot (talk) 19:51, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm thinking of the recent debate over the proposed merge of Time-Warner Cable and another company, in which a press release was somehow considered newsworthy. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:08, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. 331dot (talk) 21:34, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For youse guys' information, The problem with the proposed purchase of Time Warner by Comcast was almost certainly never going to happen, and it didn't. μηδείς (talk) 01:21, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above comments. Significance is not at all clear. I remain open to reconsideration if the nomination rational and sourcing issues are improved. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:36, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose unless the significance can be better explained. 331dot (talk) 19:52, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support This certainly could be important, for example for future ISRU efforts perhaps. Nothing immediate, however. - OldManNeptune ⚓ 20:08, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The sourcing isn't the issue (I don't get the aversion here of primary sources, they are often the best sources in science), but it's hardly world shocking news. Fgf10 (talk) 21:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose A noble suggestion, but not parked on the main page. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:47, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Interesting piece of information, even if not immediately significant. This may not be a groundbreaking discovery, but groundbreaking discoveries are built on fundamental work like this one. Banedon (talk) 00:53, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this is the confirmation of the detection of trace amounts of a gas which would be expected to be produced by nuclear decay of radioactive elements. It's absence would have been unexpected. It's not at all unexpected. It's simply the first time we've looked with a sophisticated enough instrument. μηδείς (talk) 01:15, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Just wanted to point out that the detection of the Higgs boson is similar to what you wrote in many ways: its existence is predicted by the Standard model, and it was only detected because it's the first time we looked for it with a sufficiently sophisticated instrument. Banedon (talk) 04:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • We already know neon is produced by radioactive decay, we know its properties, and it was not just predicted to exist in small quantities as it leaked out of the moon's crust, it was fully expected, to the point of not finding it fit with no theories. The value of the Higg's boson was an unknown (although a certain range was predicted) and it's non-existence was considered a possibility. The analogy is between the discovery of neon itself and of the Higgs boson, not between the discovery of neon leaking from the moon and the existence and nature of the Higgs boson. μηδείς (talk) 16:14, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • The non-existence of anything that has not been detected is always a possibility, e.g. there were topless models of particle physics before the top quark was discovered, and things like TeVeS and MOND deal with the non-existence of dark matter. Most physicists will say that dark matter probably exists, and a direct identification of dark matter would be 'fully expected' in that sense - but if dark matter were conclusively identified today, it would still be news-worthy to me (not to mention Nobel Prize-worthy). That said, it's your opinion, so I'm dropping this thread of thought. Banedon (talk) 01:24, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - it is notable because, until now, studies had shown the existence of only two gases in abundance (helium and argon) in the lunar atmosphere. With this confirmation, there's a third. What's the point in asking for its significance/use? If a new element is discovered on earth, do we check if that element is "exciting" or useful to mankind and then post the blurb? In this case, the discovery itself is significant. It is an interesting piece of scientific news; two of the linked articles are GA. I don't see why this shouldn't be on ITN. 1.39.60.68 (talk) 12:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Which are also the products of radioactive decay. There's a reason why it's 100,000,000,000,000 times thinner than Earth's atmosphere. It's barely an atmosphere if it's just atoms circumnavigating the entire Moon in a few bounces before hitting any gas particle. And probably bouncing high enough to escape the Moon after only a few gas atom hits needing to be constantly replaced with new alpha particles and decay products of potassium and sodium and stuff.. Though if it's only the third gas detected in the lunar atmosphere in any quantity that's still pretty cool. I don't know. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - This is a significant first-time discovery about our moon. Tenuous as the atmosphere there may be, this is knowledge that has just now become known to humanity, and though some people may not find it of interest, there are many others that do. I find this ITN-worthy, and the linked articles are among the best we have to offer. Arguments in support carry considerably more weight, in my view. Jusdafax 07:32, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose – Minuscule fraction of a minuscule atmosphere, with minuscule significance. Little more than trivia. —Patrug (talk) 08:04, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Why are so many opposes citing the thin lunar atmosphere as a reason? Do real people read science news and think "bah, the moon's atmosphere is 10^-14 earth's atmosphere, nobody cares what elements are there!"? Not to say this is exceptionally important news, but the reasoning is a little...thin. - OldManNeptune ⚓ 10:30, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Oppose – "The Moon has an atmosphere so tenuous as to be nearly [a] vacuum" – actually, more of an exosphere. Thus, to landlubbers (so to speak) like this user it doesn't seem much of a phenomenon. Sca (talk) 14:53, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 17

[edit]
August 17, 2015 (2015-08-17) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Jacob Bekenstein

[edit]
Article: Jacob Bekenstein (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Scientific American FQXi
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Not a household name, certainly, but an influential and important physicist who came up with a formula for black hole thermodynamics, which influenced Stephen Hawking. Also known for the Bekenstein Bound and as a recipient of important prizes and awards in his field, including the Landau Prize, the Rothschild Prize, and the Einstein Prize. Kudzu1 (talk) 15:59, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Move Tianjin chemical explosions to Ongoing?

[edit]
No consensus to move to ongoing only to report on death toll updates. After the shocking cratered photos a few days ago this has now dropped out of the news. Stephen 02:46, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2015 Tianjin explosions (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)

Shall we move 2015 Tianjin explosions to ongoing ticker? We are getting newer stories lately, but death toll is rising, and more explosions are happening. --George Ho (talk) 19:58, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There seems little chance that this will drop off the bottom soon so no, oppose. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:59, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's already at the bottom. --George Ho (talk) 23:45, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And what is "ongoing"? It's not in the news any longer. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:09, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] David Denson

[edit]
No consensus to post. A good nomination and yet vehement opposition has resulted in a quick close. Perhaps a DYK could come from this if really necessary? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:58, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: David Denson (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ David Denson comes out as the first openly gay Major League Baseball-affiliated player. (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Largely covered and revolutionary in the world of athletics. Thechased (talk) 18:14, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Twenty or even ten years ago this would have been major news. Today, given the tectonic shift in public attitudes about sexuality capped by the recent SCOTUS decision on gay marriage, it rates little more than a yawn. As I have said ever since the SCOTUS ruling, the battle over gay rights in the West is now pretty much over. This and the many similar stories that have, and will continue to pop up, are just a reflection of that reality. Someone drop me a line when Russia or Saudi Arabia legalizes gay marriage. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:21, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I suspect this will be AFD'd fairly soon, since he certainly fails WP:NBASE and I would wager that the majority of even the most diehard baseball fans have never heard of him (pinging Baseball Bugs who may have an opinion). As Ad Orientem says above, "xxx comes out as gay" is no longer a story in Western countries, unless it's a figure like a religious leader where their sexuality is actually germane to their job. (Note that Keegan Hirst, who just came out as the first gay British Rugby League player, doesn't even have an article on Wikipedia.) ‑ iridescent 18:29, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and I created the article. I disagree with Iridescent about AfD, since I believe it passes WP:GNG. (Though, yes, I'd never heard of him until yesterday.) I nominated it for DYK, which I think is more appropriate than ITN. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:32, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think AfD is a real possibility. I am not seeing anything that rings the notability bell here. To the extent he is getting a lot of coverage right now I think that can be filed under WP:BLP1E. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:55, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] 2015 Ratchaprasong bombing

[edit]
Article: 2015 Ratchaprasong bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 19 people are killed when a bomb explodes in Bangkok, Thailand. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

 The Rambling Man (talk) 13:18, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Official figures released at 22:00 give "approximately" 18 dead and 117 injured. Best I could find was a screenshot of the document posted on Twitter though.[16] --Paul_012 (talk) 17:06, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 16

[edit]
August 16, 2015 (2015-08-16) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

Sports

Women to vote in Saudi Arabia

[edit]
Article: Saudi Arabian municipal elections, 2015 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Women voters register for Saudi municipal election. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera English The Independent
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Women have very few rights in Saudi Arabia - allowing women's electoral participation and candidacy risks snowballing in the country that was little affected by the Arab Spring. Boud (talk) 00:01, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Ready] Shuja Khanzada killed in a bombing

[edit]
Articles: 2015 Attock bombing (talk · history · tag) and Shuja Khanzada (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  A bomb explosion in Shadikhan, Pakistan, kills 20+ people, including politician and ex-colonel Shuja Khanzada, and injures 20+ others. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Pakistani politician and ex-colonel Shuja Khanzada is assassinated in a bomb explosion at his home in Shadikhan, causing 20+ casualties and 20+ injuries.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Pakistani politician and ex-colonel Shuja Khanzada is killed in a bomb explosion at his home in Shadikhan, causing 20+ casualties and 20+ injuries.
Alternative blurb III: ​ A bomb attacks the home of Pakistani politician and ex-colonel Shuja Khanzada in Shadikhan, killing him and more than 20 others and injuring more than 20.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Both articles updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Although not as big as last year's school massacre and recent bombings in Bangkok, this should attract readers in the Main Page. George Ho (talk) 19:54, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment this was primarily assassination of Shuja Khanzada other victims are collateral damage. --Jenda H. (talk) 21:34, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Added the 2nd article, Jenda H.. George Ho (talk) 21:52, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support now--Jenda H. (talk) 18:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Needs attention] 2015 Douma market massacre

[edit]
Article: 2015 Douma market massacre (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Air strikes launched by the Syrian government kill more than 96 in Douma, Syria. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times CNN Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Very high death toll, lots of coverage in the news, has been called "one of the deadliest single incidents involving air strikes since the conflict [the Syrian Civil War] began nearly five years ago..." [17] Everymorning (talk) 02:14, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Definitely ITN material, major death toll, deadliest single civilian attack in years. Article requires some major improvements. Strongly suggest rename to 2015 Douma market massacre as referred to in [1], [2], [3], ... 495656778774 (talk) 14:44, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose there's a range of claims about civilian deaths in other events we haven't posted. The group Islam Army does not have a page - readers are likely to be confused about the rebel groups and factions, given territorial changes and the number of military groups that disband/defect/rename/form coalitions. Most news media outlets do not have their own people on the ground; in my opinion, users are not well served by articles that don't cover in detail the rebel groups and their allegiances. -- Callinus (talk) 11:25, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Callinus: targeted rebel group does have a page, Jaysh al-Islam, wikilinked. Your only concern addressed.... 495656778774 (talk) 11:44, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2015 PGA Championship

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2015 PGA Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Jason Day (pictured) wins the 2015 PGA Championship, which is his first major title. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In golf, Jason Day wins the PGA Championship.
News source(s): USA Today New York Times
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Everymorning (talk) 00:22, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Ad Orientem: "Support per ITNR" is unnecessary, as the whole point of the ITNR list is that items on it don't need support on the merits, as ITNR gives a pass on the merits. The purpose of an ITNR discussion is only to discuss article quality and a blurb. 331dot (talk) 08:13, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Quality seems fine. The article at least contains a prose summary of each round (not long summaries, but still each round is covered) and the tenses are correct and results are accurate. --Jayron32 15:16, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support the article covers this seminal golf tournament's final round in about sixty words. That's pathetic, but it seems that our standards these days are such that a few sentences work. So no objection to this being posted under the current climate. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:13, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Updated article, ITN/R, don't see anything to hold up posting. -Kudzu1 (talk) 22:06, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with alternative blurb: In golf, Jason Day wins his first major title, the 2015 PGA Championship. Sentence reads better to me, and is more concise too. Banedon (talk) 09:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment "Jason Day won his first major title with a total score of 268 (−20), the lowest score in relation to par ever recorded in a major" - nothing newsworthy here ....
  • Posted a borderline article. Stephen 23:44, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2015 Netball World Cup

[edit]
Article: 2015 Netball World Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Netball, Australia beat New Zealand 58-55 in the 2015 Netball World Cup final. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Netball World Cup concludes with Australia defeating New Zealand in the final.
News source(s): [18]
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Met some opposition four years ago, but was confirmed at ITNR as a sport worthy of posting here. Updated [19]. AIRcorn (talk) 23:55, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not ready this is the report that covers the whole of the final match, the most important match every four years in netball: "In the final Australia outplayed New Zealand in the first quarter to lead 16–7. Despite wining each of the next three quarters New Zealand were still beaten 58–55." NOT ENOUGH. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:11, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Added more detail.[20] AIRcorn (talk) 22:28, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Bob Johnston

[edit]
no trend toward support μηδείς (talk) 15:23, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Bob Johnston (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Billboard
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Iconic producer of the some of the greatest albums of the 60s and 70s. yorkshiresky (talk) 12:23, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very weak support on notability -- involved in some great albums, but I'm not sure about "iconic" -- but the article quality is not good. It will need to be improved in order for it to be considered for posting. -Kudzu1 (talk) 18:17, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I'm not seeing much here that sets this guy apart. His association with famous people does not appear to have been a major contributing factor in their fame or musical success. If he had not produced these songs/albums would someone else not have? No awards or any kind of industry wide recognition of his standing/influence. And as Kudzu1 notes, the article has some serious sourcing issues that preclude its being linked on the Front page until they are fixed. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:09, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose no evidence whatsoever that he innovated in the ways George Martin and Phil Spector or others have. The latter part of his discography speaks of a mediocre journeyman, not a groundbreaking genius. μηδείς (talk) 01:20, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose doesn't clearly indicate significance, poor article, nothing much more here. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:14, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] Trigana Air Service Flight 267

[edit]
Article: Trigana Air Service Flight 267 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Trigana flight TGN267 with 54 passengers and crew on board crashes in West Papua, Indonesia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Trigana Air Service Flight 267 crashes with 54 passengers and crew on board in West Papua, Indonesia.
News source(s): Mirror
Credits:
Wreckage found. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 14:20, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Cleaned up article, updated blurb. Ready? Sca (talk) 15:33, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: West Papua needs disambiguating. The article gives the site as just Papua (province). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:16, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wreckage spotted. Sca (talk) 13:49, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, we saw that many hours before you posted this, it's better to actually work on the article after it's been posted than to provide late updates to the item itself here. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:01, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I did. Sca (talk) 00:27, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Julian Bond

[edit]
Article: Julian Bond (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Yahoo, LA Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Very notable civil rights activist. High on his field. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 09:14, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 15

[edit]
August 15, 2015 (2015-08-15) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

[Closed] Ongoing Yemeni Civil War

[edit]
No consensus. Stephen 02:39, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Yemeni Civil War (2015) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo news, Reuters, Fox News, Al Jazeera EN, WVTF, Press TV ect..., and also some social aspect Al Jazeera
Credits:
Nominator's comments: There is ongoing highly successful offensive against Houthi by saudi-backed forces. Jenda H. (talk) 13:10, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 14

[edit]
August 14, 2015 (2015-08-14) (Friday)
Business and economy

International relations

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime
  • Masked gunmen kill 19 people and wound seven others at multiple locations of São Paulo's suburbs Thursday night. (BBC), (ABC)

Science and technology

[Posted] New type of Pentagon tiling discovered

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Pentagon tiling (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Mathematicians at the University of Washington Bothell discover a new type of pentagon tiling (pictured), the first new type of tiling the plane with a single polygon discovered since 1985. (Post)
News source(s): NPR, The Guardian, [21]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: It isn't often mathematical stories hit the news, and this one is being covered by NPR currently. The target article DOES need some work; it is updated but could use some referencing, I was hoping that some of the mathy people who patrol here might take this on as a project. An interesting story, from an underrepresented topic, is currently in the news. Maybe a nice change from the "death-sports-politics" cycle we always end up in. Jayron32 03:36, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support It is indeed rare that mathematical discoveries of this difficulty are accomplished. I would like to see it covered. For those unfamiliar with the problem 3, 4, 6 and all other numbers of sides are solved, the pentagon is not. Chillum 05:20, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Abstain Since I don't think this has anything to do with the office flooring in the War Department, and I don't have a clue as to what it is about, I will defer to the judgement of more competent editors. -Ad Orientem (talk) 06:18, 15 August 2015 (UTC).[reply]
    In layman's terms, there are only certain known shapes where you can take the exact shape and repeat it infinitely to "tile a plane" and leave no overlaps or gaps. Squares, triangles, and regular hexagons are all known to work, and such simple shapes have all been known to humanity for millennia to do such a thing. Discovering a new shape which can be repeated infinitely in such a way as to "tile a plane" is very rare, the last such known shape was discovered in 1985, and prior such shapes were discovered almost a century ago. It's exceedingly rare, and also a cool story for ITN for its novelty. As noted in my nomination, the target article is not up to standard, but the subject seems interesting enough, and I was hoping this nomination would inspire Wikipedians who actually do know this stuff (a set of people that does not include myself) may be able to fix up he article. --Jayron32 06:26, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning toward oppose. a) The paper is unpublished (although admittedly, the pentagon itself has been published, so anyone can verify the results easily enough). b) This doesn't solve the pentagon tiling problem, it's just an (incomplete as of yet) brute-force attempt to find new pentagons. I'd compare this to finding a new largest prime number - it's an impressive bit of computer programming, but it doesn't tell us anything new. On the other hand, if someone found the rule that describes the distribution all prime numbers, that would be a massive breakthrough. Similarly, finding a new pentagon tiling is cool, but finding all the pentagon tilings (even if just by proof by exhaustion) would be more newsworthy. Smurrayinchester 10:16, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability. It's not a terrorist bombing, and the discovery is obvious by visual inspection, there's no peer-reviewed source requirement, nor would it be needed. μηδείς (talk) 16:09, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Nah, you kliddin' me! I never even knew The Pentagon had tiles. But great to see it's keeping up to date. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:32, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support following in-line citation improvement. Article definitely needs work with properly citing material to the appropriate source (WP:CS & WP:ILC). The only piece of information directly cited is the presence of fifteen currently known variations. Leaning toward support based on notability of the subject within its context, but not so strongly based on Smurrayinchester's comments. Definitely would be nice to represent a topic that has nothing to do with death, sports, and war. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:58, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would mark this ready with a net 4 1/2 supports and a 1/2 oppose, but the update really should be at least the sentences, if not five with three sources. I don't see that. Can Jayron32 or a supporter with the requisite acumen get us three sources in 3 sentences? μηδείς (talk) 00:35, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. As an extreme layman in this area, I am moved to support by Jayron's explanation above and the two linked sources. I am not moved by Smurray's counter argument pointing out that this is not the greatest accomplishment that could ever occur in this area. To me, that is like saying we shouldn't publish a new discovery of a planet because we haven't yet discovered every single planet. Yes it's not the complete task but it is a major step in completing that task. (And speaking of planet discoveries....)Rhodesisland (talk) 03:27, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose adding esoterica, even if it takes our mind off depressing issues. --Light show (talk) 07:58, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Esoterica is the only thing that keeps some of us going, alas. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2015 (UTC) [reply]
  • "Encyclopedy". Support for diversity to counter systemic bias of news junkies being right-brained (and yes, I know left and right brain isn't very scientific). This is not proof of knowing every shape that can tile (which may be impossible) but it looks like the smallest repeating section is 7 pairs of tiles wide in the 40 degrees clockwise of horizontal direction so the low-hanging fruit is gone. We're still working on bathroom tiling technology. Take that fusion power researchers! Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:39, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support: Doesn't appear to solve the unsolvable mathematical problem, but it is an addition to the canon, and it's nice to feature things that aren't disasters, deaths, or sporting victories from time to time. -Kudzu1 (talk) 17:25, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support new knowledge of fundamental geometry - the first of its kind in 30 years - is newsworthy. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:54, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted The Rambling Man (talk) 20:50, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] North Korea time

[edit]
Speedy close for this good faith nom per WP:SNOW. No need to further pile on. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:25, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Articles: UTC+08:30 (talk · history · tag) and Pyongyang Time (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ North Korea replaced Korea Standard Time by adopting Pyongyang Time, which is UTC+08:30, used by Korean Empire before Japanese occupation. (Post)
News source(s): Bloomberg, The Diplomat, Economist, Yahoo news
Credits:
 Jenda H. (talk) 16:18, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. How is this news? Countries/states changing their timezone either to bring themselves into synch with a trading partner, or as a statement of cultural independence, isn't an unusual event (Sri Lanka, Venezuela, Samoa and Crimea are a few from the last few years). ‑ iridescent 16:27, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose if a country switches to Hammer time, that will be news. Belle (talk) 16:45, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. I don't know if I would say that this isn't an unusual event but it doesn't seem that significant. It's no secret that North Korea isn't a fan of anything to do with Japan and this just seems to be a way for NK to criticize the "imperialism" of the West. 331dot (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, premature, the transition is tomorrow per article. Will support then. A country adopting a new time zone is significant Brandmeistertalk 16:49, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think it was nominated now because it had been announced today(last 24 hours at least). 331dot (talk) 16:52, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support, yes, it's past midnight 15 August there. Brandmeistertalk 16:56, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] 51 Eridani

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No consensus. Stephen 02:37, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: 51 Eridani (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The star 51 Eridani is found to host a Jupiter-like planet, the smallest ever directly imaged. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In its first discovery, the Gemini Planet Imager finds that star 51 Eridani hosts a Jupiter-like planet, the smallest ever imaged.
News source(s): [22][23][24]
Credits:
 Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:57, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Medeis, the direct imaging is important, as is the size of the planet imaged. I am trying to find more scientific things to go here so our ITN is more encyclopedic I guess....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:50, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support – Notable discovery worth mention, namely considering it's the first of the Gemini Planet Imager, but not terribly keen on how notable it is (by ITN standards). Exoplanets are discovered all the time so the only real aspect of mention here is the size of the Jupiter-like planet. Science-side of me is leaning support, but I could honestly go either way. I'd also suggest adding exoplanet into the blurb to more clearly indicate that it's the Jupiter-like planet being referred to as the smallest, since the star is being targeted as the main subject of the blurb. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:16, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Per Medeis. Rhodesisland (talk) 03:30, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose Scientific trivia, being the smallest Jupiter-like planet is rather an arbitrary criterion. Brandmeistertalk 18:53, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the 'smallest Jupiter-like planet'; I don't know where you got that from. It's the smallest planet that we have a direct image of - as opposed to indirect evidence from transits or Doppler shifts. It does also happen to be roughly Jupiter sized, but that's irrelevant to the notability claim. Modest Genius talk 11:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Marking ready as this is technically ready, and the support outweighs the opposition. Obviously this is a close call, but it should either boe posted or closed, not left hanging, and I think the argument in favor of posting is strong. μηδείς (talk) 01:24, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - The fact that this is the smallest-ever planet to be directly imaged causes me to agree that the nomination is ITN-worthy. I could wish for a bit more meat on the article, but feel thoughtful readers around the world will find this of interest. Prefer alt-blurb, but support either. Jusdafax 01:57, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Records for exoplanets are being broken every month or so. This one doesn't tell us anything new or surprising about planets, and is purely due to improved instrumentation. Bound to be beaten sooner rather than later. Modest Genius talk 11:18, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, far too commonplace nowadays. The first exoplanet with evidence of photosynthesis can be posted. Otherwise stop nominating these. Abductive (reasoning) 16:15, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Fine. there is clearly no consensus so can someone uninvolved archive this? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:53, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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August 13

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August 13, 2015 (2015-08-13) (Thursday)
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RD: John A. Nerud

[edit]
Article: John A. Nerud (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times Blood-Horse Los Angeles Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Highly successful owner and trainer of thoroughbred racing horses described as "legendary" by media sources reporting on his death. Hall of Famer who helped start the Breeders' Cup. Kudzu1 (talk) 01:58, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Quaternary extinction event

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Article: Quaternary extinction event (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A new scientific study strongly supports the human factor as the leading cause of the Quaternary extinction event. (Post)
News source(s): The Independent, University of Exeter, Ecography
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Yes, there are dozens of such papers, but this time one of the researchers said: "As far as we are concerned, this research is the nail in the coffin of this 50-year debate". The research was conducted by three universities and published in the peer-reviewed Ecography (putting this under August 13 per University of Exeter announcement date). Brandmeistertalk 19:18, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2015 Baghdad market truck bombing

[edit]
Article: 2015 Baghdad market truck bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ More than seventy six people are killed and and two hundred injured in a suicide truck bomb attack targeting a popular food market in Baghdad, Iraq. (Post)
News source(s): (Reuters) (Daily Mail) (NY Times)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: gruesome crime, number of deaths on a massacre scale 495656778774 (talk) 16:37, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Introduced improvements/added material, should be ITN ready now....495656778774 (talk) 13:08, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I sympathize. But the news is what it is. And this clearly meets ITN criteria. If you can find something that meets the critera and that does not include blood and mayhem please feel free to make a nomination. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:06, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 12

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August 12, 2015 (2015-08-12) (Wednesday)
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RD: John Scott (organist)

[edit]
Article: John Scott (organist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times, The Daily Telegraph, Gramophone, NDR (in German). He was also the subject of the main obituary in The Times on Saturday, but the full version is behind a paywall (preview here).
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Internationally acclaimed organist and choirmaster. Transatlantic prominence as organist of St Thomas Fifth Avenue NYC since 2004 after being Director of Music at St Paul's Cathedral London (1990-2004). Meets the "widely regarded as a very important figure in his field" hurdle. BencherliteTalk 13:15, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Bump - any thoughts from anyone? BencherliteTalk 12:51, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – Unexpected death of one of the world's leading figures in church music, and "the premier English organist of his generation", still in his 50s, prompting a long-overdue major expansion of his WP article. Though he never aspired to become a household name, he was responsible for major worldwide publications, dozens of top-quality commercial albums, hundreds of highly reviewed concerts, and the formative training of countless young musicians. Good opportunity to give ITN some extra variety beyond the usual disasters and politicians! —Patrug (talk) 18:23, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping, I had indeed missed the nomination. This is not my field or interest, so I don't feel qualified to voice an opinion other than unopposed based on a brief scan of the article. μηδείς (talk) 16:20, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I also thank you for the ping; though I must concur with Medeis and oppose on the same grounds. 331dot (talk) 20:34, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Above, Medeis/μηδείς said unopposed. —Patrug (talk) 21:06, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So they did.....I meant to say unopposed. Thanks for pointing it out. 331dot (talk) 21:10, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: There are some referencing issues with the article, but the thing that stands out to me most is that there isn't a bluelink in his entire discography section. That makes it very hard to assess the figure as being of great importance. If the article were improved to demonstrate clear notability and add quality references, I'd consider supporting, but I'm not quite there right now -- and time, obviously, is a factor. -Kudzu1 (talk) 15:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In case it helps, I just added some quick citations for his (admittedly imprecise) "many award-winning recordings" and the prestigious Pipedreams broadcasts honoring them. —Patrug (talk) 21:06, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Updated, thanks. His just-published obit in The Guardian now covers almost every basic fact, and his Manchester Evening News review looks like the only missing date. I'll soon have citations for the "complete organ works" sentence. —Patrug (talk) 22:29, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done. At this stage, I think the article is at or near "B" quality, up from "Stub" a week ago. —Patrug (talk) 23:10, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2015 Myanmar flood

[edit]
Article: 2015 Myanmar flood (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Flooding in Myanmar kills at least 100 people and affects more than a million people in the country. (Post)
News source(s): Times of India, Reuters, BBC, VOA ect...
Credits:

Nominator's comments: At least 100 dead and more than 1,000,000 refuges caused by record flooding. Jenda H. (talk) 22:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Myanmar redirects to Burma, but the article immediately informs us that it is "officially the Republic of the Union of Myanmar and commonly shortened to Myanmar." AP, Reuters, AFP and BBC use Myanmar. My impression is that Myanmar remains the consensus for now. Sca (talk) 14:40, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but if the article is titled "2015 Myanmar flood", shouldn't it at LEAST use Myanmar as the name of the country throughout, and not Burma, as it does now? --Jayron32 18:27, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think so. As noted, Myanmar seems to be the most widely accepted name for the country at present. (I'm no expert on the country or region, but it would seem that the country entry, Burma, should be renamed Myanmar too.)
BTW, target article seems sketchy (it's less than 300 words), and those parts of it couched in present tense should be converted to past tense. Sca (talk) 20:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Subj.-verb agree't.: Suggest blurb be changed to Flooding in Myanmar kills.... Sca (talk) 20:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In the time it's taken you to write this comment, why not just adjust the blurb? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:33, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and changed it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:57, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Marked ready per consensus. Brandmeistertalk 17:21, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's still a marginal article at best... C628 (talk) 20:53, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Jimmy Carter announces he has cancer

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this would be absolutely unprecedented, and they won't even know what kind of cancer it is for days. μηδείς (talk) 23:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Jimmy Carter (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former President of the United States Jimmy Carter announces that he has cancer. (Post)
News source(s): USA Today BBC NBC News
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Not sure what usually happens when people who clearly meet the RD criteria, such as Carter, are diagnosed with a serious disease. However this announcement has been covered widely in the media and Carter is very notable (he will probably get a blurb when he dies), so I think this is notable enough for ITN. Everymorning (talk) 22:36, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - we don't post normally when every celebrity gets hit with a life-threatening illness and I fail to see how this is any different. Simply south ...... time, deparment skies for just 9 years 23:10, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait He's a former head of state of one of the most important countries in the world, but even so we don't normally post updates on their health. Will probably support however, if the prognosis turns out to be terminal (a very real possibility given his age). -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Per Ad Orientem. I would also like to point put that most 90 year olds aren't strong enough to even have liver surgery, so maybe he has a small chance. 109.149.136.203 (talk) 23:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Snow closing; doctors say he's in good health and just diagnosing the cancer will take till next week, not that we would post this even then. μηδείς (talk) 23:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Okay, enough now. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:47, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Posted] Explosion hits port city of Tianjin

[edit]
Article: 2015 Tianjin explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A large chemical explosion occurs in Binhai, Tianjin, China. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Comment, OP here. Please edit and update the details when possible. Number of dead is unknown, but from the scale of the explosion, looks like one thousand or more. Hospitals are how treating hundreds of patience with burn or glass wounds. Most of the info we can get now is from Weibo. But within the next few hours you will get Chinese media and more Western err ports also. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.28.143.34 (talk • contribs)

I've added a source (BBC) above, but I'm neutral currently. Thryduulf (talk) 20:02, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but I think we should allow a little more time to assess the magnitude of this event. Sca (talk) 22:29, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] London plague burial pit

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close with consensus that this would make a great WP:DYK nomination μηδείς (talk) 00:53, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Great Plague of London (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ During the construction of the London Crossrail, a burial pit from the 1665 plague has been unearthed at Liverpool Street station. (Post)
News source(s): (Daily Mail), (CNN)

Nom. --bender235 (talk) 17:57, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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August 11

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August 11, 2015 (2015-08-11) (Tuesday)
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  • In Puyallup, Washington, a gunman on a mass shooting spree kills a man, then fired at homes and people before driving a stolen SUV through the garage door, crashing into several cars, and shooting at police until stopped when his SUV was rammed by a police car. (KIRO)

Politics and elections

August 10

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August 10, 2015 (2015-08-10) (Monday)
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[Closed] Alphabet

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No consensus to post. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Alphabet Inc. (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Google reorganizes under a new name Alphabet Inc., with Google as its leading subsidiary. (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:
 FutureTrillionaire (talk) 02:31, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Ferguson unrest

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No consensus to post, mild thoughts over waiting, in which case renomination would be appropriate. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:42, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Ferguson unrest (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A state of emergency is declared in Ferguson, Missouri after violence breaks out amid protests marking the anniversary of the shooting of Michael Brown. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian BBC Reuters
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Leads many major media outlets, including the New York Times. Also covered outside the US (see above links). Everymorning (talk) 21:14, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Night parrot

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No consensus. Stephen 02:39, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Night parrot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A night parrot is captured for the first time in over a hundred years in outback Australia. (Post)
News source(s): [1][2]ABC 7.30
Credits:
 Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:36, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK then I oppose this as an ITN story and recommend you switch to DYK instead (assuming there's enough new sources to support sufficient expansion). Whilst this species is clearly rare, it is hardly the only one in the world whose population is unknown. In a continent the size (and low population density) of Australia, it's not surprising that things can hide in the interior. I don't see how this affects (or interests) anyone except ornithologists. Modest Genius talk 09:39, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
DYK won't apply, unless the article is hugely expanded. It is not new enough to qualify otherwise. Plus, comparisons with the Norwegian Blue (Least Concern) are a bit fatuous, no? μηδείς (talk) 00:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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August 9

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August 9, 2015 (2015-08-09) (Sunday)
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[Posted] RD: Frank Gifford

[edit]
Article: Frank Gifford (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post Fox News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Was a member of both the Pro Football Hall of Fame and College Football Hall of Fame. His jersey number was also retired by the Giants, and he was described in the Fox News link above as "a legendary broadcaster" outside of his football playing career. Seems to have been important enough in his field for RD. Everymorning talk 19:34, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] 2015 World Aquatics Championships

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No consensus to post a poor article. Stephen 02:38, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: 2015 World Aquatics Championships (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 2015 World Aquatics Championships conclude with China winning the most medals. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The 2015 World Aquatics Championships conclude with China winning the most gold medals.
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
 Donnie Park (talk) 10:21, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Kiril Simeonovski: @BabbaQ: Support on the merits (i.e. "support per ITNR") is not necessary as that is the entire point of the ITNR list. ITNR nominations only require discussion on quality and a blurb. 331dot (talk) 19:44, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
TRM, time to calm down. And get off the high horse... please.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:45, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How is TRM not being calm? Simply stating that you don't seem to understand this isn't being on a high horse. 331dot (talk) 21:58, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: I typically use comments to complain on quality issues rather than oppose a nomination and change my mind once the article is improved or updated; I use votes only to express my opinion whether a topic should be posted regardless of it being listed as ITN/R. Having an ITN/R turned down because of its questionable notability, which sometimes happens, is a first revision before taking the matter further to nominate it being delisted.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 06:38, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
TRM has it right. There are two major criteria for posting something at ITN. One is whether it belongs there. The other, perhaps the more important of the two, is whether the article is good enough to showcase. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It matters little, most people just come here to "support per ITN/R" without even bothering to look at the quality of the article. This is one of the poorer ITNRs I've seen, but it did make me smile that someone felt the need to needlessly wikilink show which, of course, is a dab page. It also features swathes of unreferenced claims and poorly written English, but that seems to be irrelevant to those who just show up to say "Support per ITN/R". The Rambling Man (talk) 20:38, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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August 8

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August 8, 2015 (2015-08-08) (Saturday)
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[Posted] Typhoon Soudelor

[edit]
Article: Typhoon Soudelor (2015) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Soudelor makes landfall in Taiwan, killing at least five people and injuring at least 185 others. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Typhoon Soudelor makes landfill in Taiwan, forcing the evacuation of more than 160,000 people, killing at least five, and injuring at least 185 others.
News source(s): CNN USA Today
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Death toll is rather low, but there were a large number of people injured and over 160,000 people were evacuated before the storm hit. Additionally, 1.4 million households are without power as a result of the storm. Everymorning talk 21:08, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Ongoing: Parapan Am Games

[edit]
Provisional snowclose. Doesn't look like this is going anywhere. -Kudzu1 (talk) 00:53, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: 2015 Parapan American Games (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): EBC, Toronto Star, CBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Major multi-national sport event, largest yet, referenced detailed article that is being updated. Rare chance to feature parasport, and since Wikipedia coverage of parasports in general is not very good, great chance to improve coverage and improve the diversity of the encyclopedia. (Article to be featured in ITN is already good, I don't mean to improve that one but I mean to attract editors to other parasport articles by boosting the profile of the topic). The Games run Aug 8-15. 184.147.128.46 (talk) 17:52, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I don't see how this event is notable enough for ongoing. Maybe give a blurb to opening of the games. Zwerg Nase (talk) 18:03, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Does this meet the standards for ITN? I ask as we don't usually post sporting events in ongoing. While I laud your desire to promote this topic, we have guidelines because ITN has limited space and in order to ensure we don't get swamped with stories that are intended to bump an editor's area of pet interest. And let's be honest, we all have areas of interest for which we would like to get more exposure. For now I remain Neutral on this nomination. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:05, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know since the rules are hard to understand, but hoped so. It is not in the list of automatic events but it is an ongoing event per reliable sources. At the moment the Ongoing space is empty, so I thought why not add this for the next week while the games are happening. 184.147.128.46 (talk) 18:17, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: We generally don't list sporting events in ongoing unless it has very high worldwide viewership (World Cup or Olympics, generally), and this doesn't appear to meet that standard. -Kudzu1 (talk) 18:20, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Aside from me personally opposing all sports in Ongoing except the multi-sport Olympics, I don't think this has the level of notability needed- and it isn't our role to help generate such notability and interest. 331dot (talk) 20:37, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose For ITN/R, the nominator put in "not yet". This is not an ITN/R event, and I don't see any reason to post it at all. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:41, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant Oppose I don't think this meets the ITN guidelines. If it gets enough attention maybe we can consider a blurb when the games close. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:11, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Manuel Contreras

[edit]
Article: Manuel Contreras (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deutsche Welle The Guardian BBC News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Notorious figure in the Pinochet administration blamed for the "disappearance" of thousands of Chileans during the dictatorship. Not an admirable person by any stretch, but a notable one. Media outlets worldwide are reporting on his death, which unfortunately brings a premature end to the 505-year sentence he was ordered to serve in prison. Kudzu1 (talk) 15:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support RD conditional on improvements in sourcing. A very unpleasant man, but he clearly satisfies ITNDC. On a side note, I wouldn't worry about his escaping justice. His case has just been transferred to the one court from which there is no appeal. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:05, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not influential in or the top of any field by far, dozens, if not hundreds of such thugs world-wide during the cold war era. μηδείς (talk) 16:49, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say he was pretty prominent in the field of crimes against humanity. And while there are certainly dozens or more such people around, there are also dozens or more doctors, scientists, engineers, members of the performing arts, etc who were/are highly influential in their field. We post them too. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:55, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly not a household name. Sca (talk) 20:43, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I rather suspect he is in Chile and parts of Latin America. But in any event that's not a criteria for RD. If it were we would have to take down Frances Oldham Kelsey. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:42, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD. Significant figure in the modern history of Latin America. The disappearances in Chile during the Pinochet regime are notorious and well known. Contreras was certainly not a nice person, but that's not part of our criteria, and nor is being a household name around the world. His actions were significant. Modest Genius talk 14:36, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD. Article does a good job explaining his notability and role; well filled out and referenced. SpencerT♦C 15:57, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I don't see what else is wrong with this article. Notable person. Article well referenced and in good shape. I was able to format bare URLs into references. George Ho (talk) 06:24, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Notorious", "Not a nice person", and "Notable" are simply not ITN criteria. The guy's neither at the top of nor influential in any field, nor a sitting head of state, nor has he died unexpectedly in a way that increases notability. μηδείς (talk) 22:20, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
He is extremely influential in the modern history of Latin America. And that is definitely a field. Modest Genius talk 09:26, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] The Ashes

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2015 Ashes series (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In cricket, England regain the Ashes with a victory against Australia in the fourth Test of the 2015 Ashes series. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In cricket, England regain the Ashes in the 2015 Ashes series.
News source(s): BBC News Sport
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Recurring item. Sceptre (talk) 10:51, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

... or maybe "pomicide"? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:55, 8 August 2015 (UTC) [reply]

*Oppose Who likes Cricket anyway? Support once article is updated, unless it already has been. --81.157.182.65 (talk) 15:50, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So you're saying: "yes in principle, but only one of the four matches played so far is currently summarised at 2015 Ashes series"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:49, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I thought my comment was self-explanatory really - an opposition based on quality grounds. I didn't see any need to state "I agree with the consensus over at ITNR". Is there consensus here that a single sentence giving the result and a bunch of stats is an adequate update? After all, this is what the previous series looked like when it was posted. With Aus thumping Eng in the 2nd test and Eng crushing Aus in the next two, surely we can get at least a cited prose paragraph per test. Fuebaey (talk) 18:49, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure you did. But thanks for clarifying that your opposition is on quality grounds. I think your comparison with the last series is very useful. This one is so clear cut that a more rapid posting might have been preferable. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I don't understand your last comment. Usually we update before we post, not vice versa. If there is consensus to post, it shouldn't be difficult to find a sympathetic admin. Fuebaey (talk) 21:23, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I was suggesting that, because the win this time was so pronounced, editors interested in the topic might have expended more effort to update the linked article, so that the item could be more rapidly posted to ITN. They still might, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Had I followed the series I'd take a jab. If someone could undo this edit, rem some (blatant) England POV and source it, only the second test would need writing up. Fuebaey (talk) 22:51, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support I agree that the tests leading up to and including the victory need coverage before we post this. If nothing happens tonight, I'll see what I can do. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:53, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Why don't we post it after the fifth match? 117.216.149.233 (talk) 08:30, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Because the result is already known, the last Test is a dead rubber. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:51, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Similarly, in baseball, say two teams have a three-game regular season series. If each wins one of the first two, the third is said to be the "rubber game". If one team wins the first two, they have won the series. If they win the third, they will have "swept" the series. The difference is that every game means something during the regular season, so it's not "dead rubber". In post-season series, there are only enough games played to determine a winner. That does raise a question: Why do they play a fifth match in The Ashes? Is it simply tradition that all matches are played regardless? Or is that there is statistical meaning to playing the remaining games, even when the winner is not in question? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:38, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Because people have paid to watch the oval match - not least to say farewell to Michael Clark but also in the hope of seeing another massive Aussie defeat. Oh, and the complete rubber has always been played because there is no formal award. Spartaz Humbug! 15:56, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    They play the fifth game because of tradition (historical) and commercial issues (contemporary). Having said that, the result of the fifth Test now has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the result of the Ashes; England have won them, there is nothing more to debate. No-one can "sweep" the series, nothing about the result can change. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:11, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, the fifth Test still counts towards the ICC Test rankings. If England win they will overtake Australia in the rankings; if not then Australia will remain above them despite losing the series. Modest Genius talk 09:44, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • support I'm sure this comment has no policy basis and will be ignored but this is too good an opportunity to rub Australian noses in their defeat as they open the front page. ;-) Spartaz Humbug! 15:56, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: This is on ITNR so no need to support. I'm tempted to wait until the result of the fifth Test. We'll then have a full article with all of the matches, and that's when the trophy is presented. That's also what ITNR requires ('the conclusion of the tournament or series'). However I won't object if it's posted now; we do seem to be rather quiet at the moment. Modest Genius talk 09:50, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for the result of the 5th test, then the blurb can include the final result be it 3-1, 4-1, or 3-2. -- KTC (talk) 20:51, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Needs prose for the second test, and then this should be good to go. -Kudzu1 (talk) 16:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
All now updated - ready to go. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:00, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I added an image of the glorious victors. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:28, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 7

[edit]
August 7, 2015 (2015-08-07) (Friday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

[Closed] RD: Uggie

[edit]
No consensus. Stephen 02:35, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Uggie (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter, TMZ
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Yes, it's a dog, but don't let that be the reason you don't support this. This is an animal actor who was at the very top of his game - he has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, won the animal acting awards and who can forget the Oscar campaign? Was also included in the cast nominations for both the Screen Actors Guild and the Critic's Choice (just didn't win either). Miyagawa (talk) 06:38, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Since this has received serious support, I'd better explicitly point out that my above support was my feeble attempt at humor, and I oppose this for the same reason as Kudzu: it's a dog. I have no real objection to posting non-humans if they are notable enough, but I doubt we would post any actor with only one starring role. Cute dog, though. --Bongwarrior (talk) 08:29, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] James Holmes sentenced to life in prison

[edit]
established precedent and obvious trend μηδείς (talk) 16:43, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: James Eagan Holmes (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ James Eagan Holmes is sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for perpetrating the 2012 Aurora shooting. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times BBC Guardian
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The original shooting was undoubtedly significant, and this verdict seems to be significant too because, to quote Reuters, it "brings to an end a long-delayed, lengthy, and high-profile trial just a little more than three years after Holmes' rampage in a suburban Denver multiplex put a spotlight on gun control, mental illness and security in public spaces." [28] Everymorning talk 00:21, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think the community declined to post the conviction since this was just another American mass shooting. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:08, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted to RD] RD: Frances Oldham Kelsey

[edit]
Article: Frances Oldham Kelsey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post The Globe and Mail
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Famous Canadian-American physician. Her death death is being covered around the world. Article in good shape. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:11, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 6

[edit]
August 6, 2015 (2015-08-06) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

[Closed] End of the Daily Show

[edit]
Shows end. There is longstanding consensus and obvious agreement here we do not list this sort of thing. μηδείς (talk) 17:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: The Daily Show (talk · history · tag) and Jon Stewart (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Daily Show with Jon Stewart ends after 16 years. (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Last night saw the end of the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. The Daily Show will continue with another host (and it existed before Stewart) and Stewart will move on but the show's run during Stewart's stewardship has received unusual critical acclaim and numerous awards. His show also spun off numerous other successful shows including the Colbert Report which also finished recently as well as The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore and Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. With Jon Stewart and the Colbert Report now both finished i think we can consider the notability of both in this nomination as the shows were deeply intertwined. The English speaking media in the US and elsewhere have broadly weighed in on the show's significance as a Comedy, Satire, and News program. Here's a couple: The Guardian, New Yorker. Johnsemlak (talk) 14:59, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Here's some more coverage of Stewart's significance: Sydney Morning Herald, BBC[BBC, NYTimesNYTimes, The Economist, The Irish Times, Harvard Business Review. The links that I've provided quote serious commentators comparing Stewart to Thomas Nast, Walter Cronkite, Edward Murrow, Will Rogers and others.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

ISIL abductions

[edit]
Articles: Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (talk · history · tag) and Al-Qaryatayn (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ After capturing the Syrian town of Al-Qaryatayn, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant abducts at least 230 people from the town. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: These abductions seem significant because of the large number of people reportedly abducted, but the abduction reports all originate from the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, and I'm not sure if they're a trustworthy enough source to warrant posting just on what they say. Everymorning talk 12:30, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The (reported) fact that "many" of those abducted are Syrian Christians might make this worth a blurb, but info is still sketchy. Sca (talk) 16:07, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Don't be too sure. I read somewhere that all 'IS' members are emigrating to Kepler-452b. – Sca (talk) 20:54, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It is so good for you, that you are just reading about this group.--Jenda H. (talk) 21:47, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, wait a minute, I didn't read that – it was in a strange dream I had last night. Sca (talk) 01:27, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Suez Canal expansion

[edit]
Articles: Suez Canal (talk · history · tag) and New Suez Canal (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A new 21-mile bypass channel of Egypt's Suez Canal is officially opened, approximately doubling its capacity. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A new 21-mile bypass channel of Egypt's Suez Canal is officially opened, approximately doubling its capacity.
News source(s): Sky News The Globe and Mail
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Significant expansion of one of the most vital and newsworthy international shipping canals in the world. Major infrastructure project for Egypt worth more than US$8 billion. Kudzu1 (talk) 06:54, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have now done a double in the Alt 1 blurb. In my opinion that looks better and is more appropriate. --BabbaQ (talk) 09:55, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In what way? 331dot (talk) 14:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 5

[edit]
August 5, 2015 (2015-08-05) (Wednesday)
Disasters and accidents

Health and medicine

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] Colorado mine spill

[edit]
Article: 2015 EPA Colorado mine spill (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A massive toxic spill occurs at Gold King Mine near Durango, Colorado, contaminating a river in southern Colorado and threatening other waterways. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A massive toxic spill, first occurred at a mine near Durango, Colorado, flows into the Animas River and reaches the San Juan River.
News source(s): NY Times, Fox News, USAToday
Credits:

Article updated

 Brian Everlasting (talk) 20:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I assume "rivers are clear upstream" is a joke? Rivers don't flow upstream. The EPA lied about the original amount of the spill, stonewalled on notifying the locals, and is saying that the toxins will sediment out, but that is what the polluters of the Hudson who opposed the Pollution_of_the_Hudson_River#Superfund_designation said. I suggest that the oppose votes point out a worse case of river contamination in US history. This one affects the Navajo Nation (who are suing) and the Colorado river through the Grand Canyon and to the Hoover Dam. μηδείς (talk) 02:36, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Read over a few more articles, but the main issue I keep running across is how bad are the effects? EPA hasn't said anything about potential health effects nor environmental impacts; however, some areas are possibly (EPA isn't being clear...shocker) already back to "pre-event conditions" (per the Denver Post). I've stricken my oppose in light of lack of complete understanding on my part, but without a clear indication of the effects, I can't necessarily support either. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 03:00, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you're still interested, Cyclonebiskit, you can look at yesterday's article from the NYT. Note the yellow deposits on the river banks. This is cadmium, which is highly toxic--for which see cadmium poisoning. μηδείς (talk) 17:24, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"clear upstream" is the source. The spill is a plume which travels with river. Being clear upstream is part of measuring when the event ended just as downstream measurements will indicate when the plume passes. The pictures where it was yellow are snapshots and they are no longer yellow in those upstream areas. The plume has passed them. See the stats below on Lake Powell for dilutions and why water officials in AZ are not concerned about safety of the water supply. That doesn't mean that states and localities looking for compensation will claim it's safe but we've not seen dead livestock or fish or anything else that indicates a biohazard. This is quite different from BP spill or Exxon Valdez where the impact is readily apparent. --DHeyward (talk) 22:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Why else opposing it besides how the media treats this story? George Ho (talk) 06:51, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The reason, I suspect, that the media is not interested is that there are no dead fish or birds to take pictures of. This suggests that this spill is not all that bad. The Santa Barbara oil spill a few months back was not posted, because it was not considered bad enough.
There could be pictures of it, but the press can decide whether or not to post them. And suggesting the spill is not that bad underestimates possible harm to society. Do you think either blurb can mislead readers into believing the spill is harmful or harmless? George Ho (talk) 08:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose "no evidence yet of human injury or wildlife die off."... The Rambling Man (talk) 08:28, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's still showing up in the top stories on Google News, and one of the most recent includes: '"Over the next few days, the waters in the river are going to clear up," said Jeff Witte, New Mexico's agriculture secretary. "That's doesn't mean they're safe folks." Mark Hayes of the EPA reminded residents not to use the water until they get an all clear. When that will be, they don't know.' I'd call that significant and ongoing. —Torchiest talkedits 11:18, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support We wouldn't buy "no evidence yet of human injury" from BP or Exxon-Mobil if they caused a similar catastrophe; why are we buying it from the EPA? Attempts from them to downplay this are pure CYA.--WaltCip (talk) 15:46, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. --ceradon (talk • edits) 16:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A significant environmental disaster. When you are closing rivers it's a big deal. And no, I don't trust the EPA anymore than I would BP to be upfront about this. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:27, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment this has barely scratched the surface of news outside the US, and it currently has no clear consequences. In other such situations we usually wait to find out if anything truly detrimental takes place, rather than relying on editors' personal opinions on conspiracy theories or cover-ups. This posting is poorly thought through in my opinion, Gold King Mine doesn't have an article, and all the news outlets are suggesting nothing has actually really happened. Of course if something does, we could post it, but right now it looks completely absurd to post this item with no real definition of the impact of the spill. Of course, once we start seeing all the animals and humans nearby dying, we should re-consider, but right now, nothing is happening. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:44, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A list of mostly smaller waterway spills throughout the world that received major attention with the damage observed over time. FWIW, the 3 million gallons for this one equals 25 million pounds. --Light show (talk) 20:14, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Pounds of what? That's just a conversion of water volume to water weight. Here's another one: It's 9 acre-feet of contaminated water (which already has a dilution). Lake Powell is 24,000,000 acre-feet of water. It takes in 9,000 acre-ft of water a day. The dilution rate is order of magnitude over a mile and the spill is 250 miles upstream of Lake Powell. The total volume of contaminated water is 0.1% of a days worth of water. By the time it gets to Lake Powell it will be spread into multiple days (the 9 stays the same, the 9,000 grows so dilution in the stream is likely to make it unmeasureable). It then gets added to the 24,000,000 acre-feet. Whatever the PPM was at it's highest concentration, divide it by 30 million for worst case. Every day that passes, double the 30 million. (3rd day after spill means 120 million). --DHeyward (talk) 22:14, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You are right that one can't talk about gallons of solution as if they equal pounds of pollutant, but cadmium is lethal (LD50) in humans from between .35g and 3.5g, with inhaled dust being far more toxic. The estimated 3 million gallons spilt includes not just solute but also tailings, which means sludge. Comparing the volume of the spill with the volume of Lake Powell is an apples and oranges thing. What matters is the inflow from the spill and the outflow from the Colorado. This will be affected by the sedimentation, but the problem is the sedimentation still poisons bottom feeding fish, and doesn't just disappear--rather it become sequestered, causing long-term damage. What is known hear is worth posting, what is not known here is no objection to posting. μηδείς (talk) 22:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The safe levels of cadmium in drinking water is 5 ppb. The post-spill measurement was 6 ppb at the highest concentration. Lead was a much higher increase than cadmium and cadmium is being played as a red herring. It's not an issue. In the entire 25 million pounds of water, there were 65 grams of cadmium total. It's considered safe to drink with 50 grams of cadmium in that amount of water. --DHeyward (talk) 01:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A river sample had 12,000 times EPA's acceptable levels of lead Of course there's a huge lake called Powell in Arizona but what about the fish upstream of that lake? Just because fish can survive a few days doesn't mean that they can't die off in 3 weeks or 3 months or all die from cancer in 3 years and bioaccumulate in the food chain. I know cadmium accumulates up the food chain and in animal bodies and it apparently collects in the human kidney for 20-30 years. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

See above. Levels of cadmium are not particularly high. Lead is though but dilution will quickly change it. --DHeyward (talk) 01:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

2015 Copa Libertadores

[edit]
Articles: 2015 Copa Libertadores (talk · history · tag) and 2015 Copa Libertadores Finals (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In association football, River Plate win the 2015 Copa Libertadores, defeating Tigres in the finals (Post)
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:

Both articles updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Top-level club soccer competition in South America and Mexico, ITN/R '''tAD''' (talk) 12:31, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@ComputerJA: Since this is on the ITNR list support based on the merits is not necessary; we only need to judge that an adequate update has been made and decide on a blurb. 331dot (talk) 14:46, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: The prose summary for the finals is acceptable. Referencing is at acceptable levels. No reason not to post this now, even if the articles aren't perfect. -Kudzu1 (talk) 15:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose you think seven sentences of prose, including one dedicated to an injury and one dedicated to a red card, is an adequate summary of two 90-minute matches in an ITNR? I don't think so. Seven paragraphs would be more appropriate. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:21, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question I don't want to get into a debate about OTHERSTUFF type matters, but the community roundly decided to NOT post the CONCACAF tournament earlier this month, but a similar CONMEBOL tournament would get posted? They are equivalent FIFA regions, why is one regional FIFA tournament worth posting and another not? I'm not arguing we should or shouldn't post either this one (or should have posted the other). I'm just trying to understand what the standards are for deciding which tournaments to post and which to not. If there's good reasons, I'm quite understanding, but I can't figure out how two nearly identical tournaments would have differing levels of support. --Jayron32 16:01, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Any reasonable football observer knowledgeable about both regions would say that the CONMEBOL tournament is a significantly higher standard than the CONCACAF standard. Also, Mexican teams, which are the strongest in the CONCACAF region (judging by the winners of the CONCACAF Champions League) also compete in the Copa Liberatadores. The South American tournament is also much older and more established and valued by its fans.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:22, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I can appreciate that. The standard supposedly argued for not posting the CONCACAF tournament, however, was "We don't post regional tournaments", not "We don't post this one tournament because it's not good enough". I'm just looking for consistency and understanding. Your explanation makes sense, and would have made sense at the last (non-)posting of the CONCACAF tournament had that been the argument; but the argument posited there was "We don't post regional tournaments"... Thanks though, your explanation is reasonable. Still inviting more commentary. --Jayron32 16:28, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Naga truce

[edit]
Articles: National Socialist Council of Nagaland (talk · history · tag) and Ethnic conflict in Nagaland (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The NSCN-IM signs a peace accord with the government of India after decades of fighting. (Post)
News source(s): Live Mint, Economic Times
Credits:
  • Nominated by [[User:120.62.19.227 (talk) 19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)|120.62.19.227 (talk) 19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)]] ([[User talk:120.62.19.227 (talk) 19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)|talk]] · [{{fullurl:User talk:120.62.19.227 (talk) 19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)|action=edit&preload=Template:ITN_candidate/preload_credit&preloadtitle=ITN+recognition+for+%5B%5BNational+Socialist+Council+of+Nagaland%5D%5D&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=National+Socialist+Council+of+Nagaland&preloadparams%5b%5d=nominated}} give credit])[reply]

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Truces have been notable enough in the news. I believe the FARC agreement was posted at some stage. The end of the Lankan civil war also was posted. 120.62.19.227 (talk) 19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Saudi–UAE invasion to Yemen

[edit]
No consensus to post at this time. SpencerT♦C 15:54, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen (talk · history · tag) and Battle of Aden (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hundreds of the Saudi-led coalition troops are deployed with tanks and heavy equipment to the strategic southern Yemeni city of Aden to fight Iran-backed rebels. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hundreds of the Saudi-led coalition troops are deployed with tanks and heavy equipment to the strategic southern Yemeni city of Aden to fight Iran-backed Houthis.
News source(s): Yahoo news, BBC, NDTV
Credits:
 Jenda H. (talk) 10:39, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Newsflash from "so called" invasion: Saudi Arabia sends new military equipment including tanks from Sharura into northern Yemen to support government forces fighting Iran-backed Houthi militants. VOA --Jenda H. (talk) 08:49, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The key word there being "equipment". Supplying weapons to an ally, along with instructors to show local troops how to operate it, is not an "invasion", or by that reasoning the US, Britain, Russia and France are between them currently invading most countries in the world. – iridescent 09:11, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

==== [Posted] Discovered debris probably of lost Flight 370 ====

Proposed image
Article: Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Debris from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is washed ashore on Réunion, 508 days after its disappearance over the Indian Ocean. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Over 500 days after its disappearance over the Indian Ocean, a flaperon from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is washed ashore on Réunion.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Analysis of a Boeing 777 flaperon that washed ashore on Réunion shows it is from the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The flaperon discovered washed up on the shores of Réunion on 29 July is confirmed to have come from the aircraft operating Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (pictured), which disappeared on 8 March 2014.
News source(s): Guardian, Popular Mechanics

The wait is implied, but at this point it seems all but certain that the flaperon belonged to MH 370. An official annoucement might come as early as today. This ITN/C is just so we can decide on which blurb to put eventually. --bender235 (talk) 05:47, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - Thanks for the nomination, Bender235. Under the rules, it goes to the date of event. Id est ("that is") the date when the debris was discovered. I assumed it was August 1, but it turns out to be July 29. I've moved the nomination twice to earlier date. But we'll see how it goes. --George Ho (talk) 05:58, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
My triple mistake. July 29 was a debris discovery. August 1 was a debris transfer to France. The blurb is still too soon to tell. But I still can't figure out which date to put in. For now, I've moved the nomination back to the date of nomination for further updates. George Ho (talk) 06:09, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I put it here because today's the day when there will be most likely an annoucement regarding the origin of that flaperon. --bender235 (talk) 06:25, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously we should. But anything but a confirmation later today would be a huge surprise. They already confirmed it was a Boeing 777 part, and there's no other airplane of that type missing in that part of the world. This entry is just to discuss the blurb, not to post anything prematurely. --bender235 (talk) 06:27, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How long does it take the French to check a serial number? Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 07:10, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Lug, bleve the proper form of this joke is, "How many Frenchmen does it take to check a numéro de série? Sca (talk) 13:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Répondre de Calais: not long. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:33, 5 August 2015 (UTC) [reply]
The analysis begins today, I suspect it will continue into next week. Brandmeistertalk 07:18, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes, it could never fly with all those barnacles on it, could it Martinevans123 (talk) 18:50, 5 August 2015 (UTC) [reply]
As I understand it, it has been confirmed that the piece of wing they found was that of a Boeing 777; this flight is the only Boeing 777 that is missing. There were indeed varying statements from the different agencies involved- but it is very hard to see how this could be anything but part of this flight. 331dot (talk) 22:02, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There seems to have been some embarrassment over the timing of an announcement, rather than any technical dispute. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 4

[edit]
August 4, 2015 (2015-08-04) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents
  • A street-corner sized sinkhole forms at the intersection of Fifth Avenue and 64th Street in Sunset Park in Brooklyn, New York City, ruining the street corner. The northbound N Broadway Local train undergoes delays; there is at least one disconnected pipe and some gas lines requiring repair by National Grid workers. Local police cordon off the area. No fatalities or injuries are reported. (Business Insider, via MSN)
  • Two express passenger trains (12 coaches of the Kamayani Express; to Varanasi from Mumbai, or Bombay) derail, after being partially swept off a bridge while crossing flooded tracks in India's Madhya Pradesh state leaving at least 31 people killed and about 100 others injured. Related to this incident are monsoon rains and the end of a cyclone which have killed more than 100 people in India. (NDTV), (Reuters via MSN)
  • Two boats collide between Kiwa and Remba Islands on Lake Victoria leaving several people dead. (The Nation)

Health

Religion

[Closed] RD: Natalia Molchanova

[edit]
Nomination has grown stale and there does not appear to be any movement here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:03, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Natalia Molchanova (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Russian free diver Natalia Molchanova, 53, is presumed dead after disappearing during a dive near Ibiza, Spain.
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Her death is currently on the front page of the New York Times, which describes her as "Natalia Molchanova, widely regarded as the greatest free diver in history", so should be notable enough. I am only nominating for RD and not for a full blurb, as I don't think sports or extreme sport deaths are news on the same level as e.g. international conflicts for the purposes of ITN. Thue (talk) 20:19, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. A blurb might be a good idea. Just need confirmation, possibly article update afterwards, and her career section needs sources. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:00, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with this. I don't think this would be a suitable blurb candidate in any way, shape, or form. --Bongwarrior (talk) 21:11, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That the greatest ever free diver is missing, presumed dead? Well there you go, the idea of a blurb was that it would cover the idea that she is missing, presumed dead, rather than confirmed dead, which RD would require. Either way I can see that you aren't interested in this nomination, fair enough. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Lack of confirmation is a good reason to not post it at all, not elevate it to a blurb. With all due respect to the presumably deceased, this is a minor death of a niche athlete. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:20, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"minor death"? Strange way of putting it. The Rambling Man (talk) 04:56, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Not really. --Bongwarrior (talk) 07:04, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, really. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:54, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Calling someone's death "minor" is highly offensive. Non-notable by Wikipedia standards, maybe. But not "minor". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:41, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I made an accurate appraisal of the nomination. If that highly offends anyone, that's something I have no control over. I said exactly what I meant to say. --Bongwarrior (talk) 17:07, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You didn't appraise the nomination, you appraised the person. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:17, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure I understand the difference here. How exactly do you evaluate a death nomination without evaluating the person who died? --Bongwarrior (talk) 17:37, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You don't evaluate the person as a person, you evaluate their public notability per ITN guidelines. To call anyone's death "minor" is cold and callous. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:48, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely very odd to describe the death of anyone as "minor". Perhaps it's a language thing. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Would being shot by an anti-aircraft mortar count as a "major" death?--WaltCip (talk) 16:42, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD as an important figure in free diving. I'm learning toward weak oppose for a blurb, based on my subjective evaluation of this individual's importance, though I do understand other editors may judge her importance differently. Mamyles (talk) 19:26, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD oppose blurb. This is rather clearly qualified for RD but the article is too small to meet the prior ITN criteria before we had RD. Should go up ASAP. μηδείς (talk) 19:51, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on article quality. She clearly meets the bar for notability in her sport, with the sheer number of world records and gold medals - but the article is little more than a stub with an attached table that isn't completely sourced yet. Challenger l (talk) 20:45, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you read the General Criteria link at the top of this page, Challenger l. Her article clearly meets the Fuzhou derailment criterion for article size. μηδείς (talk) 22:09, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Posting a blurb means that this person is special enough to be featured on the front page. However, she's not prominent enough to be newsworthy; neither is her presumed obituary. As for the RD, that would mean she's dead. She's just drowned into the deep waters. Her body just disappeared, so perhaps I'll propose the missing persons ticker. In the meantime, let's not make death presumptions a real indication of death. George Ho (talk) 22:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment If we are going to do anything with this, it should probably be soon. We are inching towards the point where this nom is going to start looking a tad stale. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:22, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Posted] Harda twin train derailment

[edit]
Article: Harda twin train derailment (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 31 people die when a flash flood derails two trains in Harda District, Madhya Pradesh. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least 31 people die when a flash flood derails two trains in Madhya Pradesh, India.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Article exists, but could still a little more information. Smurrayinchester 09:06, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I proposed that Kudawa derailment be merged into Harda twin train derailment because latter is older. Harda is also more notable and several sources say that accident happened in Harda not Kudawa. "The Hindu" also says Harda twin train derailment. Thank you Supdiop (Talk🔹Contribs) 11:43, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but I recommend the blurb mention India (perhaps attached to the pipe of the Madhya Pradesh link), as neither location to me strikes me as well-recognized in the English-speaking part of the world. --MASEM (t) 14:16, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This tragic accident meets the bar for posting to ITN. I agree with Masem, and suggest an Alt Blurb that includes the state and country for recognition, and because the district article is of low quality. Mamyles (talk) 14:33, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: Kudawa derailment is now redirected to Harda twin train derailment. Please don't consider me as a creator or updater. Thank you --Supdiop (Talk🔹Contribs) 16:23, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 3

[edit]
August 3, 2015 (2015-08-03) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Sports

[Posted] RD: Robert Conquest

[edit]
Article: Robert Conquest (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Wall Street Journal The Weekly Standard The New York Times
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Famous English-American poet, polemicist, and historian of the Soviet era who won the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the United States, among other honors. Kudzu1 (talk) 00:16, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your politically motivated comment is utterly disgusting. Have some respect. 131.251.254.154 (talk) 10:36, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's hardly the worst of all the forum-esque comments I've seen around here. Have some perspective.--WaltCip (talk) 11:08, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Withdrawn] RD: Les Munro

[edit]
Withdrawn by nominator. Clear that there is no consensus to post, although I find it quite dismaying when people !vote against RD based on their personal opinion of the man or woman who died... -Kudzu1 (talk) 00:43, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Les Munro (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio New Zealand BBC News The New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Last survivor of the Operation Chastise "dambusters" of World War II and a national hero in his native New Zealand, having received numerous military honors as well as being named a Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit. Kudzu1 (talk) 00:20, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As a New Zealander, I have to say that describing him as a "national hero" is pushing it - he was pretty well known, but probably not a household name. He is obviously a highly decorated war veteran, but there are lots of those and I don't think that's sufficient to warrant posting. It should also be noted that he was not the last of the Dambusters - he was the last Dambuster pilot, but there are still two Dambuster aircrew alive. In any case, I'm not sure that being the last survivor of a particular WWII operation - albeit a famous one - is sufficient to justify posting either. Neljack (talk) 01:21, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose A highly decorated war veteran. But is that enough to satisfy ITNDC? I don't think so though I'd probably support if he had the VC -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:29, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • References needed I have no opinion as to notability, but the article has entirely unreferenced sections. μηδείς (talk) 02:41, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – The much-dramatized "Dam Busters" raids killed 1,600 civilians, including 1,000 forced laborers, for what British RAF historian Jonathan Falconer terms as "a minor inconvenience to the Ruhr's industrial output." (Such attacks on dams were banned by an amendment to the Geneva Conventions in 1977.) Sca (talk) 14:08, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral there's really no need to start claiming collateral damage and dragging up historical hatred here. To do so is simply grotesque. Whether certain individual editors or writers believe it or not, the Dam Busters are an integral and notable part of the Second World War, just as the Nazis who murdered millions of civilians and forced labourers. We are not here to re-define what is and is not important in the context of history, news outlets have published this individual's death. Having said that, it's just another epoch-passing moment, the history will remain whether it's subjectively decided to be significant or not, it's still there. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:46, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – This user suggests that those interested in the topic read this section of the relevant article, and decide for themselves whether Mr. Munro's participation in the raids qualifies him for RD posting. Sca (talk) 21:35, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    And this user suggests that other users reappraise themselves of the purpose and criteria surrounding ITN. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The orange tag and sparse sourcing, along with the rather disjointed nature of the article - it needs a re-write into a proper article, and not simply a disjointed association of sentences and a handful of paragraphs. Another that is a depressing sight for one with his honors and long history. Challenger l (talk) 00:13, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] 23rd World Scout Jamboree

[edit]
No consensus to post. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:16, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 23rd World Scout Jamboree (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 23rd World Scout Jamboree, the world's largest youth event, is being held in Kirarahama, Yamaguchi, Japan. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Naruhito, Crown Prince of Japan, visits the 23rd World Scout Jamboree, being held in Kirarahama, Yamaguchi, Japan.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Israel boycotts the 23rd World Scout Jamboree, being held in Kirarahama, Yamaguchi, Japan.
News source(s): http://newsfirst.lk/english/2015/08/japanworld-scout-jamboree-reaches-fourth-day/105771
Credits:
Nominator's comments: ongoing international event Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 22:24, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Clean Power Plan

[edit]
Speedy close for this good faith nom. I am afraid the writing is on the wall. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:43, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Clean Power Plan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Barack Obama announces the Clean Power Plan, which aims to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from power plants by 32% by 2030 compared to 2005 levels. (Post)
News source(s): BBC CNN The Guardian
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Described by the Wall Street Journal as "the nation’s first-ever federal limits on carbon emissions from power plants", and FWIW, Obama himself says it's “the single most important step America has ever taken in the fight against climate change”. Also described as "major" in CNN link above, so this seems significant. However, the article is new and still rather short, so it should be expanded before posting (assuming there's consensus to do so, of course). Everymorning talk 21:11, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Greek Stock Market Crash

[edit]
Withdrawing nom. This isn't even gaining enough interest to generate a few more oppose !votes. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:01, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Athens Exchange (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Greek Stock Market suffers the worst crash in its history after being reopened for trading for the first time since June 27, 2015. (Post)
News source(s): AP The Telegraph CNN The Street
Credits:

Article needs updating
 Ad Orientem (talk) 17:25, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support conditionally The Greek debt crisis was quiet when it was removed from ITN/R. Now, it's loud again. Athens Exchange is not a particularly great looking article at the moment, though. Also, neither source you provided refers to this as a "crash". – Muboshgu (talk) 18:13, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that this is not the greatest article, but I think it is adequately referenced and will serve. Greek government-debt crisis, which I would normally think the better target, unfortunately has issues that probably can't be resolved in a timely manner. I have also added two sources that specifically use the word "crash" though I do believe that commonsense would allow for that adjective when talking about these kinds of one day losses. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:56, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. I don't usually question other editors in their vote rationals, and in fairness there are some reasons I could think of that might give an editor some pause on this nomination. But yours is not on the list. I don't see how that oppose rational could not be applied to the vast majority of what we post on here. The word "frivolous" comes to mind. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:45, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Now, now, WP:NPA! A bleak day on the Athens Exchange, no doubt, but stock markets are notoriously volatile. In deference to Addy's sensitivities, though, I'll change my vote to wait – for now. Sca (talk) 21:56, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't criticizing you. I was criticizing your vote rational. That said, I will admit that I am not altogether happy with the article quality. I just think this is a news item that should be posted on ITN. I would call my own vote as the nom a weak support.
Preceding unsigned comment added by Ad Orientem.
Update: – On Tuesday the Athens Exchange index declined 1.2 percent, compared to Monday's net loss of 16 percent. Sca (talk) 20:38, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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August 2

[edit]
August 2, 2015 (2015-08-02) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime
  • A court in Egypt postpones a verdict in the prominent trial of two journalists with Al-Jazeera, who have been charged with aiding the Muslim Brotherhood. (Reuters)
  • A Catholic and a Baptist church in Las Cruces, New Mexico are rocked by explosions at a mailbox and a trash can. (USA Today)
  • Services are held outdoors after Dustin Connor allegedly stole a computer, discharged fire extinguishers, and damaged a cross and other structures at a church in Piqua, Ohio. He is aleady a person of interest in similar vandalism to another church in the town.(The Washington Times and The Dayton Daily News)
  • Authorities jail a man in Melbourne, Florida, after he tries to rob the church during a sermon with an airsoft gun before being subdued by the Pastor. (The San Francisco Chronicle and Florida Today)
  • In an apparent road rage incident in Reedley, California, an 18-year-old pregnant woman is shot in the left eye after passing a slow-driving SUV which subsequently pulls up alongside and opens fire.(Sky News)

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Cilla Black

[edit]
Article: Cilla Black (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Rcsprinter123 (speak) @ 13:08, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this does not currently merit posting but on what basis are you imposing a time limit? Usually people have until a nomination drops off a page, especially if there is support for posting on the merits(as there is here) 331dot (talk) 16:06, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Most deaths stop being news in a day or two, unless it's suspicious circumstances, in which case maybe a week, a member of the Royal family, maybe two, or in the case of Diana, Princess of Wales, I'm not sure the Daily Express has ever stopped. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:23, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your view, but your initial post seemed like a deadline or ultimatum after which this would no longer be valid for discussion. 331dot (talk) 16:47, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I seem to remember waiting nearly a week to get Francesco Rosi posted at RD. I'd suggest that Cilla, being many times more notable in UK than Rosi, ought to expect to be posted regardless of any time limit. But then I'd also expect far more editors to help in improving the article. All the sources required will be in English for a start, well roughly English, anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:58, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Calm down, calm down, Martin, I'm sure people will leap in to help update our Cilla's page. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'm sure dale be dare sooon. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:10, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So what still needs supporting? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:55, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but it was only minor copy editing and stylistic changes. I did not search for any new sources. Thanks for marking up. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:35, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
After the diligent work of User:Yorkshiresky, now looks ready. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:39, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As one that had issue with the sourcing, the current version does look sufficiently inline-sourced to post now, good work. --MASEM (t) 14:45, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging The Rambling Man to post assuming he's happy with cites. μηδείς (talk) 15:47, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me, well done all those who worked hard on getting this up to snuff, so now posted. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:34, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

August 1

[edit]
August 1, 2015 (2015-08-01) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

[Closed] Hammer throw world record

[edit]
good faith nomination, but trend is obvious μηδείς (talk) 01:02, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Anita Włodarczyk (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Polish athlete Anita Włodarczyk sets a new world record in hammer throw, at 81.08 metres (266.0 ft). (Post)
News source(s): IAFF, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Don't know whether we post women's world records, but in this case difference compared to men's is fairly small, at 5,66 m. Brandmeistertalk 08:52, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
ITN is not a sports record ticker. Some are important enough to be posted, but not every one. 331dot (talk) 12:56, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. I also agree with TRM's observation. We really don't want to set a precedent here. Sports records are set with great frequency and it would be a nightmare trying to decide what gets posted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:57, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closing] African golden wolf

[edit]
No consensus to post. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:28, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: African golden wolf (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A new species of wolf, African golden wolf, is discovered by researchers. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The first new canine species in 150 years, the African golden wolf is shown to be separate from the Asian Golden Jackal.
News source(s): Cell, National Geographic, CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: New species of wolf/jackal/dog found. Sources refer to the species as all three, however, The Market Business says they are wolves, not jackals. Andise1 (talk) 02:57, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  1. ^ Milman, Oliver (10 August 2015). "Night parrot capture and tagging hailed as 'holy grail' moment for bird lovers". The Guardian. Guardian News and Media Limited. Retrieved 10 August 2015.
  2. ^ Grewal, Jessica (10 August 2015). "Looking for a night parrot in a haystack? Found one". The Australian. News Ltd. Retrieved 10 August 2015.
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